TR2/3/3A TR3A/3B auction dilemma

[Andrew Mace]

I spotted an online auction for a "1959" TR3A, TS4xxxxL. In looking at the pictures, I began to wonder, seeing raised hinge bases, flat rear floor, green flasher indicator on the dash and smaller smooth bonnet lettering, etc., etc. Then I saw a shot of the body number plate (yes, only the one), with a fairly high TSF number, telling me the car was a late 3B.

So what does one do? Casually ask the seller if s/he knows that the title and commission number plate are likely from another car? Ask for the engine number, just in case it does have its original TCF engine (possibly not, since the valve cover is earlier 3A, and the block is painted blue, which raises more flags)? Keep quiet, hope I win tonight's NY Lotto jackpot, then buy the car and try to recover its proper identity? (That's not likely to happen, so....)

 

[TR3driver]

I vote keep quiet and hope you win the lottery. I have long since given up trying to tell folks on eBay what they have. Don't really see the point. If it is more valuable than what they think it is, then you're just helping them make money (which they aren't likely to share with you). If it is actually less valuable, then they generally get mad and ignore you anyway.

You missed another possibility, which is that the pictures shown aren't of the car being sold. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. Sometimes, the seller doesn't even have a car.

 

[Andrew Mace]

In "fairness" to the seller, all the pictures do look to be of the same car, and one photo does show the commission number plate (that does look to have been re-riveted) with the same number as that quoted in the listing. So....

 

[Kleykamp]

I noticed that too. I couldn't read the vin though. So many things switched out on these cars anymore, it's hard to tell what you're buying. I've got a '61 with a '58? engine. My first TR3 was a '59 but had body parts and engine from about 6 different cars. I think they put together enough parts to call it a car and sold it to me. I had to buy the rest. The one on ebay does look to be pretty complete with most parts that came with it though. Good luck.

 

[PeterK]

The front badge is 3-colors used only in 1959. So my bet is that is it made of several cars, most likely the front-end from a 59 and the commission plate bears that out.

 

[martx-5]

... So many things switched out on these cars anymore, it's hard to tell what you're buying. I've got a '61 with a '58? engine. My first TR3 was a '59 but had body parts and engine from about 6 different cars. I think they put together enough parts to call it a car and sold it to me. I had to buy the rest...

That's the truth about switching parts around. The commission number on my car is T#236xxL, but I put a post 60k body on it except for the apron and one rear wing. My original body was basically the proverbial pile of rust, and the post 60k body was a steal for what it was. I could have used the commission number from the newer body, but then the engine numbers etc wouldn't have been in line. I suppose all of that stuff could be sorted out if one wanted to keep things "original", but in my case, since I was modifying so much other stuff, it didn't matter. Besides, these cars aren't exactly rare and there are plenty of people out there keeping original examples together.

My take is if the car is what you're willing to pay for, and originality isn't a real big issue, then go for it. If it turns out to be a 3B and has a 3B engine number, often times the Heritage people can track it down by body and engine numbers and give you a certificate with the correct commission number.

Looking at the NADA Classic Car guide, they show a '59 TR3A valued at average retail to high retail as $18k to $39k. A '62 TR3B shows up as $22k to $40k. So, there is a few extra thousand involved for a good example of a late 3B over a 3A. In the below average retail market, both cars come out about the same.

Edit: I just looked at the car, you have to deduct value because it has an adjustable steering wheel!

 

[Andrew Mace]

Someone -- not me -- apparently tipped off the seller, who now mentions the TSF body tag and the possibility that it might be a TSF series (actually, with that body number, it would be a TCF series) TR3B. Wonder if that will affect the bidding?