Lucas' Reputation - why?

[steveg]

Does anyone know why Lucas electrical equipment has a bad reputation?

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Because there are a lot of jokes about it?

 

[BJ8Healeys]

This is just my theory, but I think it's because too many owners didn't bother to do the periodic and preventive maintenance that the cars were designed to have. When the cars were new, they were relatively cheap and, as sports cars, many were really thrashed. Repairs were frequently, as the Brits say, "bodged". Many electrical problems are due simply to corrosion or loose grounds. In my experience, the genuine Lucas parts are not only very reliable, they can also be taken apart and fixed when they do fail. When you think about it, Lucas engineering was amazing: anyone can design a part that works all the time and anyone can design a part that never works. But it takes real engineering talent to design a part that works part-time!

 

[Healey 100]

I have always felt Lucas has been unfairly cast as unreliable. I have owned several British cars with Lucas components and have few problems with them. Prince of Darkness jokes are great, but how does Lucas compare with Delco, Bosch, Mallory, or ND? Seem about the same to me.

Now that SU fuel pump -- that's another story!

 

[healeyblue]

I also think it has something to do with their reluctance to switch from positive earth.

 

[BoyRacer]

I also think it has something to do with their reluctance to switch from positive earth.

Rolls Royce and Bently's also use Lucas components. You don't hear their owners complaining about the Prince of Darkness. Maybe it's because their owners don't do stupid things to their cars like "rewire", or "fix" the problem themselves.
I only wish we still had Lucas parts available and not that crap that comes from China and other third world countries. So, who has the bad reputation now? County or Lucas?

 

[GregW]

You don't hear their owners complaining about the Prince of Darkness. Maybe it's because their owners don't do stupid things to their cars like "rewire", or "fix" the problem themselves.

I would guess that many Rolls Royce owners don't do any work on their cars. They have people for that.

 

[Healey_Z]

I think it has a lot to do with the overall circuit design in these early British cars. The two fuse Healey system doesn't provide much protection for all those poor Lucas parts.

 

[big6]

Basically wiring and switches for Lucas electrical componentsis the same as other electrical component company designs. The primary difference is the charging systems do not keep up with the amperage required for all of the lights and accessories that American’s like. With a generator or alternator output of 30 to 40 amps and the amperage requirements are greater than the generator or alternator output then E=IR takes over and begins to destroy switches and wiring. With the amperage demand high the voltage drops resulting in a resistance increase. High resistance equates to heat that impacts the spring steel for the switch contacts. The heated spring steel basically anneals resulting in switch and other component failures. The fuse circuit design is to protect against shorted circuits not amperage demand increases. The fuse does not “blow”because the increase in resistance is less than the fuse rating. The majority of the Lucas gremlins disappear with a 90 or more amperage alternator upgrade. Not all gremlins disappear due to damage done prior to making the alternator upgrade. Therefore if you are a purist and insist on originality don’t sit at traffic lights with the running lights on, fog lights on, brake light on, radio on, and other accessories and etcetera on with the engine idling.

 

[Rob Glasgow]

I think Lucas got their bad reputation because so many troubles with 'their' electric fuel pumps. Of course the fact that the pumps were made by a different company (SU) doesn't matter. They were electrical so they had to be Lucas. I have driven my BT7 for 50 years and over 180,000 miles and have never had a Lucas component failure. I did replace the SU fuel pump after 40 years because I wanted to switch to negative ground. Now I can't say the same for Delco electrical components I've had on American cars. I say Lucas has gotten a bad rap. But then, the old joke about why the British drink warm beer is to good to defend.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

... With the amperage demand high the voltage drops resulting in a resistance increase. High resistance equates to heat that impacts the spring steel for the switch contacts. The heated spring steel basically anneals resulting in switch and other component failures....

I don't believe this is quite correct--in a DC circuit resistance is essentially constant. In the equation E=IR, E is voltage drop (it's not a constant; e.g. 12V). For example, if resistance is 1ohm and current is 1amp, you'll have a 1V drop across the resistance (in this case, the wiring); your 12V will now be 11V at the load. Increase the amperage to 2A and you'll get a 2V drop, and so on. In a DC circuit, resistance is constant unless, of course, there is a variable resistance (or 'potentiometer') in the circuit. In an AC circuit total resistance--known as impedance--can vary due to inductive loads. Resistance in wiring and switches is a constant; however, if the switches are under- or barely-rated for the nominal load there is no margin and hence would probably deteriorate more quickly.

AFAIK there is no concrete basis for the Lucas reputation. I believe Lucas was the major electrical brand in Great Britain--sort of like GE in the states--and made a lot of different products (refrigerators, etc.). If some of the household products were lemons it could have reflected on the automotive products (and vice versa). The bullet-type connectors used in our LBCs can be problematic if not installed correctly (I bought an expensive but useful tool to do so). Possibly, these are more prone to corrosion than other types of connectors (e.g. the 'spade lug' type), but if you use dielectric grease to protect them they seem to be fine. At one time I thought maybe the plastic Lucas used for insulating wire might be more brittle and prone to cracking, but my BJ8's wiring harness has held up fine for many years.

Positive ground has nothing to do with any problems (see: https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et098.htm). I have read where positive ground may actually produce a more efficient spark, but can't explain why.

 

[Randy Forbes]

People are quick to condemn things they don't understand...

Electricity, even in the 21st Century, is still a mystery to many__taken for granted by all__but a lot people still don't know how to handle it (work "with" it).

If you think Lucas has a bad rap, wait another fifty (50) years until the modern day hacks start cobbling together today's computer dependent cars. Although, today's kids may have a better understanding of circuity, but will they know which direction a Crescent Wrench or a pair of Channel-locks is supposed to be applied...?

 

[John Turney]

People are quick to condemn things they don't understand...

Electricity, even in the 21st Century, is still a mystery to many__taken for granted by all__but a lot people still don't know how to handle it (work "with" it).

If you think Lucas has a bad rap, wait another fifty (50) years until the modern day hacks start cobbling together today's computer dependent cars. Although, today's kids may have a better understanding of circuity, but will they know which direction a Crescent Wrench or a pair of Channel-locks is supposed to be applied...?

One doesn't need to know circuitry to able to use a computer or play video games. I really doubt today's kids have a better understanding of circuitry than their parents - at least mine don't.

I wouldn't be surprised if when the computer goes south in today's cars, the cars get junked.

I've had reasonable luck with Lucas. The problem has always been a loose connection except for the battery cut-off switch. That is a case where as resistance goes up the part heats and anneals the spring holding the contacts together.

 

[MarkP]

I suspect many of the Lucas, Prince of Darkness, issues were a result of moisture and poor mechanical connections. British cars were traditionally convertibles that let in moisture. Then add in cloth wrapped harnesses. To that add old technology connections and you have the perfect conditions to elevate contact resistance or produce intermittent connections. I also think Japan implemented a faster "fail, redesign, production" loop that beat both British and American auto companies. Technology in Japan moved on while British companies were emerging from government ownership and socialism-lite.

 

[John Turney]

... add old technology connections ....

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a technology-savvy friend who was working in the UK after working in Japan and the US.

• In the US, we're proud of our biotechnology.
• In Japan, they're proud of their electronics.
• In England, they're proud of their steam engines

 

[Steve P.]

Having owned quite a few Britmobiles over the years, and having very few electrical
problems, I wondered the same thing. That is until I bought a 1978 MG Midget.
The switches, connectors and everything else electrical in this thing are *junk*.
Frankly, even taking the '78 Midget into account, I've had more electrical issues
in the two GM vehicles I've owned than the two dozen+ Britmobiles I've had.
Steve

 

[EV2239]

Rolls Royce and Bently's also use Lucas components. You don't hear their owners complaining about the Prince of Darkness. Maybe it's because their owners don't do stupid things to their cars like "rewire", or "fix" the problem themselves.
I only wish we still had Lucas parts available and not that crap that comes from China and other third world countries. So, who has the bad reputation now? County or Lucas?

Rolls-Royce designed all their electrics and then set up a special assembly unit in Lucas to build them! They did the same with SUs, they designed their own and had SU make them.

However and after the Wall St crash, car makers had to make the cheapest and most basic cars possible and this included the electrics that Lucas made for them.

After the war Britain was the world's biggest exporter and claimed to make the best with some justification. Our early post war cars were intelligently designed and very well made until the mid fifties when things began to go wrong. Probably the Americans did better, especially with electrics, but we did pretty good until unions and government policies strangled the **** out of us and the Germans overtook.

For my views on Government read the thoughts of HL Mencken.

 

[Roger]

As a matter of interest, Lucas never made domestic electrical equipment. No washers, dryers, cookers, and especially no 'fridges. Makes the warm beer joke a little lame, doesn't it? In any case, the reason the English drink beer, particularly real ale, above freezing temperatures is because it has taste and flavour. They also serve some "beers", like lager, cold - even Guinness nowadays.

Having spent most of my motoring life with Lucas equipment, I never found their main items much trouble - like dynamos / alternators, starters, distributors, etc. Wiring looms were another matter, but the main issues were too few and badly made ground connections.

 

[Johnny]

Plus Rolls Royce owners would never say anything negative about their possesions regardless.

Speaking of Lucas electrics I just watched a "Mad Men" rerun last night involving the Jag XKE that "Blayne Price" tried to commit suicide in. He had all the hoses sllipped on the tail pipes and placed inside the windows went inside the car and it wouldn't start! I had to laugh. He did manage to fix the problem, electrical of course, and proceeded to his office where he hung himself.

 

[steveg]

EV2239,
Rolls Royce also used Delco electrics - do you have any idea what percentage of total production that was?