Harmful Gas?

[waltesefalcon]

I'm just happy I can get 100% gas around here still. From what some folks say in other parts of the country you can only get ethanol blends. My poor old pick-up runs better on kerosene than that stuff. The few times I have put it in the old binder it has run like there was water in the gas. Why is it that alcohol runs great in some applications but terribly in daily use? Anyone out there a chemist that may be able to explain?

 

[NutmegCT]

binder?

 

[3798j]

It's impossible to know if this photo was obtained from a non-faux source (Sorry, but am feeling a need to have a disclaimer when posting something that "doesn't matter").

 

[NutmegCT]

Well, Henry Ford's first "car" - the quadricycle - ran on ethanol. And his first Model T had a knob on the dash to adjust carburetion and allow it to run on gasoline or ethanol.

He and several other "big names" of the day felt that vegetable based ethanol was the fuel of the future. Most Americans were farmers back in those days.

So ... that old photo is likely a view of reality!

Tom

 

[TR3driver]

And after all, they know more about internal automobile engine efficiency than the 10 major auto producers who came forward in the news article that the "Faux" reported, documenting their positions on the warranty issue (nothing was "created" here - just reported)

Actually, that was exactly my point, Luke. The "news" article did not correctly report what the "10 major auto producers" actually said; and in fact most of it bore no relationship at all to those letters. Regardless of whether gasohol is a good idea or not (I'm dubious myself), the news article simply did not report the news correctly. The "facts" are not facts at all.

Look the actual car companies responses up for yourself. They are posted on Rep Sensenbrenner's web site.

 

[waltesefalcon]

A Binder is slang for an International Harvester. They came to fame in the second half of the 19th century for their corn binders. Ironic then that one of their pick-ups would run so poorly on corn alcohol.

Jay, I agree with Tom that the photo is genuine. Corn was often used to fuel mixtures in the first part of the 1900s. The fact that the powers that be are turning to it now, I think, is more of a sleight of hand trick to make us think they are doing something when in fact they really aren't.

 

[70herald]

It's impossible to know if this photo was obtained from a non-faux source (Sorry, but am feeling a need to have a disclaimer when posting something that "doesn't matter").View attachment 25074

Well the picture seems to come from the Nebraska State Historical Society so it does appear to come from a fairly reliable type of source. Coming from Nebraska also makes sense

 

[luke44]

Actually, that was exactly my point, Luke. The "news" article did not correctly report what the "10 major auto producers" actually said; and in fact most of it bore no relationship at all to those letters. Regardless of whether gasohol is a good idea or not (I'm dubious myself), the news article simply did not report the news correctly. The "facts" are not facts at all. Look the actual car companies responses up for yourself. They are posted on Rep Sensenbrenner's web site.

Fair enough. I know I am sensitive to "alternate energy arguments" as I work in the "conventional energy" industry. It is frustrating how the press promotes technologies that simply are not efficient, including automotive fuel from corn, electricity from wind and solar etc. And the subsidies...let's not go there.

I don't know Sensenbrenner, but at first glance of his website he seems pretty level headed and practical. His statement on E-15 gas does speak to significant concerns with E15 gas. Without researching it further (I'm sure one could get lost going there), and wishing to get the discussion back to a technical issue I think I would be running away from E15 gas with our LBC's. Or at least be investigating the use of fuel additives. I am also fortunate we have options in our state (for now). Sensebrenner statement from his website (https://sensenbrenner.house.gov/issues/issue/?IssueID=57970):

The Obama Administration’s Environmental Protection Agency has moved forward with allowing gasoline with 15 percent ethanol, or E15, into the marketplace based on limited testing. Other relevant research shows that higher ethanol blends could cause engine failure, void warranties, and reduce fuel efficiency. If E15 is allowed to enter the market, it could crowd out other fuel options, increasing the risk of mis-fueling and endangering anyone using the fuel in a motorcycle, boat, or lawnmower. I have introduced legislation to delay allowing E15 into the marketplace until adequate, independent testing is complete.

 

[NutmegCT]

Fortunately, EPA also requires that any pumps dispensing E15 fuel must be labeled:

But what's more important, is that owners should follow the guidelines in their car's owner's manual. My 2011 Nissan Altima manual specifically states the fuel must have no more than 10% ethanol content. Thus, I know that E15 isn't appropriate for my car.

Hopefully, other drivers will follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

Tom

 

[luke44]

... Don't understand the part about adding E15 stored in stainless steel tanks to regular gasoline at the pumps. Maybe she meant adding *ethanol* to regular gasoline?... I'd like to see the AAA report itself. We've had some very good threads on this before.
Tom

I think that was what she was saying - ethanol from s/s underground tanks is added to regular gasoline to achieve a 15% blend, making E15. A good starting point for the AAA report is here:
https://newsroom.aaa.com/2012/11/new-e15-gasoline-may-damage-vehicles-and-cause-consumer-confusion/

In the end we have to make our own decisions based on what we read. Politics aside - my fleet does not have any vehicles I would be comfortable with using E15. The action I will take from this thread is to be sure other users in my household know to check what they put into the tank, and avoid using E15.

Good point Tom on the label. My take is the lawyers figured out the best disclaimer to post to fight the upcoming lawsuits. Then when you try to get compensated for your ruined engine the question becomes whether you read the disclaimer or not. "After all, you read the label to select E15, so you can't say you didn't see it...". Does anyone remembered to switch over to lead free gas? I can't remember the details but certainly it had to be similar.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Great thread, guys! Thanks for squelching the politics.

Mickey

 

[3798j]

Does anyone remembered to switch over to lead free gas? I can't remember the details but certainly it had to be similar.

Different pumps, different nozzles, and different filler necks on the car's gas tank. Lead free pumps had a noticebly smaller diameter nozzle (which would slide into the smaller fuel filler neck of the new cars). The leaded pump nozzles were too large to insert into the new cars.