Door Latch Adjustment

[LAW75]

Read the above door solutions but I think my problem is not in alignment, per se. My problem is that in order for the door to stay closed, I have to slam the door hard. Checked the inside trim around the bottom where it meets the door when closing and that does not seem to be the issue. I need help in understanding how to adjust the closing mechanisms for both doors so as to prevent the need to slam. Any tips will be greatly appreciated. AND, happy holidays to all. Thanks

 

[AUSMHLY]

Hello Law75. What model car do you have?

 

[LAW75]

Hello Law75. What model car do you have?

AH 3000 Mark III BJ8 Phase 2

 

[AUSMHLY]

Read the above door solutions but I think my problem is not in alignment, per se. My problem is that in order for the door to stay closed, I have to slam the door hard. Checked the inside trim around the bottom where it meets the door when closing and that does not seem to be the issue. I need help in understanding how to adjust the closing mechanisms for both doors so as to prevent the need to slam. Any tips will be greatly appreciated. AND, happy holidays to all. Thanks

You seem to be the 1st post on this thread. Can you provide a link to the..."Read the above door solutions" so I can get up to speed on what you've read/tried.

I have a 64 BJ8 II and together I think we can find the fault area and address/fix it. Shouldn't have to slam the door. Mine closes easy with a click.
Roger

 

[LAW75]

Hi "Obi". I went to "post thread" and then typed in "door adjustment on Healey 3000 BJ8" and then clicked on similar threads and up came a bunch of threads, going back 5++ years. All related to adjusting the door hang or uneven space between the body and door edge, not the problem I have with, I assume to better describe, a door latch issue. I really have to slam the door and attempt the "slam move" more than once to get it closed. And, if the windows are up, it wont close, even with the slam move. But, with the windows down, the slam is essential. Would love some help. Now see numerous "Similar threads" re door latch and will look those over too. Thanks.

 

[LAW75]

Obi is the best!!! Thank you AUSMHLY!

 

[Legal Bill]

So what was the fix?

 

[LAW75]

"The fix" (sounds James Bondish but all according to advise from AUSMHLY):
1. Adjusting plate on the frame side (door side may ? be unadjustable). The fastening bolts to this plate go into the rear tire well. Loosen and play until it feels right. If this doesnt fix it,
2. Close windows and see if there is a "rub" or overlap to the wooden frame that comes across the top of the window. First, try bending the aluminum frame where the weather seal inserts, pushing it somewhat out of the way of the top window rub/overlap. If this doesnt fix it,
3. Take apart the door trim, exposing the window track and adjust accordingly. If this doesnt fix it,
4. Check windshield where it meets the front of the vent window frame to see if the "meet" is parallel to the windshield post. If not, windshield to be loosened (both sides) and adjusted on both sides. If that does not fix,
5. Remove metal top frame from the body of the car and place some shims between the union of same. If this doesnt fix it....get in touch with AUSMHLY...he will help you, I am sure.
Happy and a healthy holiday and best of luck.

 

[AUSMHLY]

I thought I'd elaborate a little, if that's ok.

"The fix" (sounds James Bondish but all according to advise from AUSMHLY):
1. Adjusting plate on the frame side (door side may ? be unadjustable). The fastening bolts to this plate go into the rear tire well. Loosen and play until it feels right. If this doesnt fix it,

If you've adjusted the door by the hinges and the front/bottom/rear gap along the door looks good and it's close to where it should be in the closed position, here's how to test that everything lines up. Press and hold the door handle button in, push the door to make sure it closes without any pressure of seals hindering it (You might remove all rubber seal and try closing the door), the window it's hitting anything, the edge of the door and wing line up, as does the body line. If not, adjust the hinges more. Once everything is lined up, it may not close properly (need to slam it) because the striker is out of alignment.

The Door Lock Striker is adjustable by the two pozidrive screws holding it in place at the door opening wing. Loosening those and moving the striker up/down/right/left or removing the striker and adding shims is how to get the door to click into place.

It's important the door hangs correctly before adjusting the striker. The striker is meant to keep the door locked in place. (The striker actually has two closed positions. One is fully closed and the other is a safety catch if you will. If the door pops open when driving, the second position keeps the door from totally opening.) The striker should not move the door into place. I've seen/heard lots of doors that are not hung right being closed by the striker moving the door into place. This is usually doors one needs to slam to close and lock into place.

2. Close windows and see if there is a "rub" or overlap to the wooden frame that comes across the top of the window. First, try bending the aluminum frame where the weather seal inserts, pushing it somewhat out of the way of the top window rub/overlap. If this doesnt fix it,

If the rubber seal is pushing against the glass too much and stopping the door from closing, pull the rubber off, roll the window up and see how close the window is to the aluminum cantrail seal retainer. If a little too close, bend the aluminum edge inward a little. It that isn’t enough, reposition it on the wood, or the adjustment might be the window.

3. Take apart the door trim, exposing the window track and adjust accordingly. If this doesnt fix it,

Adjust the side windows. Remove the door panel and the Door Waist Molding. Make adjustments to the rear and front window channel by the nuts and or screws. Those adjustment will address the angle of the glass. The height is adjusted by the stop bracket.

4. Check windshield where it meets the front of the vent window frame to see if the "meet" is parallel to the windshield post. If not, windshield to be loosened (both sides) and adjusted on both sides. If that does not fix,

Besides the windscreen, you may need to adjust the vent window assembly angle too. The windshield angle may be off or the side widow is off or both.

5. Remove metal top frame from the body of the car and place some shims between the union of same.
Happy and a healthy holiday and best of luck.

Happy Holiday

 

[WHT]

Adjust the side windows. Remove the door panel and the Door Waist Molding. Make adjustments to the rear and front window channel by the nuts and or screws. Those adjustment will address the angle of the glass. The height is adjusted by the stop bracket.

Besides the windscreen, you may need to adjust the vent window assembly angle too. The windshield angle may be off or the side widow is off or both.
Happy Holiday

AUSMHLY, Thank you for all of the information and guidance you have given to others. It has helped me also.

Hopefully you can provide more information on adjusting the door glass as you mention above. The front edge of my passenger window glass slips out the the nylon door glass guide in the vertical quarter light frame/post. Also, the rear edge of the window is not being lifted as high as it should be lifted.

I need to fix these problems and make sure the window mechanism is working properly, or replace it. Can you point me to a step-by-step set of instructions on fixing these problems; and if necessary, rebuilding or replacing the mechanism?

Your guidance and help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Bill

 

[AUSMHLY]

Hopefully you can provide more information on adjusting the door glass as you mention above. The front edge of my passenger window glass slips out the the nylon door glass guide in the vertical quarter light frame/post. Also, the rear edge of the window is not being lifted as high as it should be lifted.

Bill, is the nylon guide (Moss #86) in good shape, held in place securely, not broken or worn down so it doesn't extend past the glass channel (Moss #111)?

If worn replacement is needed. If ok, then the quarter light track may need adjustment or the track channel is too wide. To test the U-Track channel width is consistent, find a socket end that will fit inside the track and slide it top to bottom in the track. If it binds up and stops, widen that area (I used a pair of pliers, ends wrapped in tape, by inserting and pulling apart). If it's too loose, squeeze that area closed a little (Pliers). Once confirmed the track width is correct, if the nylon guide still comes out, adjustments of the quarter light assembly is needed. Remove the door waist molding (held in place with dum dum or some sort of pliable sealant). The waist molding front edge has been bent so as to make a U-shape. Pull the waist molding straight up. Some wiggling or moving it forward/back a tad may be needed. Once off you should find 1 or 2 screws are used to hold the top plate of the quarter light in place. Remove those screws and loosen the screw (Moss # 168) at Vent Window To Door Bracket (Moss #164) attached to the bottom of the windows track. Now you should be able to adjust track angle front/back. You can adjust the window angle out a little (where it meets the top) by adding shims (washers) under #164. If the glass is pushing inwards too much, adjustment is made at the top.

You may need to adjust the rear window track too. There are 2 small nuts (on the outer edge of the rear door). One at the top one at the bottom. Loosen those and adjust the track inside the door. Both tracks may need adjustment, because the window tracks are curved, same as the widow. So adjusting the front or rear alone may now make the window bind because the curve of the windows tracks are not parallel.

As far as the rear of the window not being lifted as high as the front, that maybe a top fit issue. The glass has a metal window frame, which has a Regulator To Channel Bracket (Moss #84) on the bottom of the frame. The glass movement up/down is adjusted by the Window Winder Assembly (Moss #100) which slides in #84. The height stop is made by the Stop Door Glass Bracket (Moss #93). It does not allow glass angle adjustments, only height. If someone replaced the glass and didn't install it correctly in the glass frame, that may account for your situation, but I doubt it.

Please put the top up, clamped in place. Roll the widow up and take some photos of the gap along the entire glass edge to top. It may help to remove the rubber seal to show the gap better. I'll provide examples of my top to glass edge. 1st photo is with the rubber seal in place.

 

[WHT]

Hi Roger,

Thank you very much for your response. It helps, but I did not explain this very well to you. Unfortunately, this is the first time I have worked with the window glass mechanism on our BJ8 and the lack of knowledge shows.

The nylon guide appears to be in good condition itself and runs smoothly in the quarter light track. The problem seems to be in the passenger door glass mechanism and it needs to be adjusted, rebuilt or replaced. I can not find any thorough, step-by-step instructions with pictures that show how to rebuild or replace the mechanism. I would have thought BJ8 door glass adjustment problems would be fairly common and there should be good information available. I just don't know where it is hiding and I have been searching for several days without much success.

The driver side window mechanism works well, and that side window rolls up nicely and has a good glass fit to our hardtop. Everything feels firm and there is no unwanted movement in the glass.

Unfortunately, the passenger side mechanism feels a little loose or "floppy" in comparison. The glass is fixed in the lower channel as it should be, but the glass can move around a little within the door. All of the unwanted movement or flexing appears to be within the large arm/gear (Moss part 100 in your diagram). The basic mechanism is solidly bolted within the door.

When the window is rolled up, the large arm is not level and again drops down at the rear as described (although, probably not very well).

This flexing or movement lets the front edge of the passenger door glass pull away from the nylon guide in the quarter light channel and the rear trailing edge of the glass can "flop" down about 1/2-inch lower compared to the driver side. The nylon guide stays in place in the channel and its the glass/gear arm that flexes and moves. The passenger side mechanism does not have the same nice firm feeling of the driver side mechanism.

so, I need to adjust, rebuild or replace the passenger side door mechanism and hope to find information somewhere.

You appear to be the go-to-guy on door glass and are very knowledgeable about the mechanism.

Thanks again.

Regards, Bill

 

[AUSMHLY]

Bill are the window winder assembly's (I think they're also called window regulators) new?
Was the glass in either door repositioned or replaced in the window frame?
Was the Regulator To Channel Bracket in either door replaced?
Both doors open, glass up, when you push down on the top of the glass, does it move down at all?
Both doors open, glass up, grabbing the top of the glass, any play up/down, forward/back or tilt in/out movement?

Looks like a restoration. Love the hardtop!

 

[WHT]

Hi AUSMHLY,

The car was completely restored using a Jule frame about 10 years ago (body work was done by Frank Wicker); and then put into storage.

1. I believe the window regulators/mechanisms are original restored parts as are the side door glass windows.

2. The doors were painted and the door glass and regulators/mechanisms were re-installed into the doors.

3. Do not know the answer to question 3. Looks like the parts were re-plated before being re-installed.

4. Driver side glass does not move down when pushed downward. Passenger side does move down. As explained previously, the movement appears to be a flexing in the main gear/arm (Moss Part 100).

5. Drivers side glass does not move up when pulled upward. Passenger side does move upward when pulled upward. As explained previously, the movement appears to be a flexing in the main gear/arm (Moss Part 100).

Please, does anyone know of a step-by-step set of instructions for rebuilding the regulators/mechanisms (hopefully with pictures)? People have posted here that these parts can become bent and need to be rebuilt. However, no one ever explains how to rebuild them.

You mentioned: "Make adjustments to the rear and front window channel by the nuts and or screws. Those adjustment will address the angle of the glass. The height is adjusted by the stop bracket". Would it be possible to be a little more detailed?

Thank You.

Regards, Bill

EDIT: I am currently installing the hardtop and will have a headliner put in by an upholsterer when finished. And, would like to rebuild the passenger door glass regulators/mechanisms afterwards.

 

[AUSMHLY]

1. I believe the window regulators/mechanisms are original restored parts as are the side door glass windows.

Hello Bill,

The window regulators were not built to have replacement parts. They're riveted closed. If someone "restored" the regulators, they would have replaced parts from a used regulator. Replace worn gears with worn gears? There are no new replacement parts. One can restore glass by using sanding discs and compounds so the glass could have been restored. Moss does sell two versions of replacement glass.

5. Drivers side glass does not move up when pulled upward. Passenger side does move upward when pulled upward. As explained previously, the movement appears to be a flexing in the main gear/arm (Moss Part 100).

The passenger window regulator gears are worn as most likely the mechanism they are held in place with. That's why there's play or movement when you pull or push the window down. Replace the widow regulator with a new one. Moss and most likely other vendors now have them. (You can find used window regulators on ebay from time to time, but most likely they are worn. In this case, best to buy new.)

You mentioned: "Make adjustments to the rear and front window channel by the nuts and or screws. Those adjustment will address the angle of the glass. The height is adjusted by the stop bracket". Would it be possible to be a little more detailed?

As I mentioned, the two small nuts on the outside edge of the door, are for adjustment of that window track. I suggest you loosen those and move the track inside by hand and you'll figure out how that affect the movement of the glass. Same for movement of the vent window track. Play with it and you'll see how it affects things. Sorry if I'm not being detailed enough. Sometimes it's best to fiddle around with what someone is trying to explain. The stop bracket is held in place by two screws or bolts. Loosen those move the bracket, tighten them up. It'll be evident where to position the bracket after you roll the window up.

Thank You.

Regards, Bill

EDIT: I am currently installing the hardtop and will have a headliner put in by an upholsterer when finished. And, would like to rebuild the passenger door glass regulators/mechanisms afterwards.

Good luck

 

[LAW75]

Bill...what I learned from communicating with AUSMHLY: He is extremely knowledgeable as to your issue. I am not a mechanical genius so I also felt frustration similar to yours. However, once you exposed the issues, call R up and he will walk you through the problem solving. His attachment of the Moss diagram, together with his reference in his text to part numbers and along with his helping you walk through the adjustments, will give you great feelings of achievement. Like most of us, I am sure you can afford to have this issue fixed by a professional. But, we purchased these 55 year old cars because of the enjoyment of figuring out and implementing a fix on our own. Sort of playing with Legos. So, turn your frustration into anticipation which converts to achievement Enjoy and happy new year! Thanks again, AUSMHLY...

 

[AUSMHLY]

Bill,

AUSMHLY, Thank you for all of the information and guidance you have given to others. It has helped me also.

Hopefully you can provide more information on adjusting the door glass as you mention above. The front edge of my passenger window glass slips out the the nylon door glass guide in the vertical quarter light frame/post. Also, the rear edge of the window is not being lifted as high as it should be lifted.

I need to fix these problems and make sure the window mechanism is working properly, or replace it. Can you point me to a step-by-step set of instructions on fixing these problems; and if necessary, rebuilding or replacing the mechanism?

Your guidance and help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Bill

1 Hello Legal Bill and LAW75. Ok guys, I'm running a special for lawyers. How's that go, every 15 minutes is billable time?
2
3 WHT "The front edge of my passenger window glass slips out the the nylon door glass guide in the vertical quarter light frame/post."
4 Sorry, I don't really understand what you're saying.
5
6 "Also, the rear edge of the window is not being lifted as high as it should be lifted."
7 I asked in my prior email: Please put the top up, clamped in place. Roll the widow up and take some photos of the gap along the entire glass
8 edge to top. It may help to remove the rubber seal to show the gap better. I'll provide examples of my top to glass edge. 1st photo is with the
9 rubber seal in place.
10
11 I see you have a hardtop installed, please roll the widow up and take some photos of the gap along the entire glass edge to top. It may help
12 to remove the rubber seal to show the gap better.

Ok, I may have done the line numbering thing wrong. Do I need to hire a lawyer to go over everything I've written from the start of this post?
WHT, aka as Bill, the photos I'm asking for may help me help you.
Roger

 

[LAW75]

Billing min is at 6 min (1/10th of an hour) increments and Bill and I are thinking hard of sending you an invoice as you get to show your knowledge.

 

[WHT]

Hi AUSMHLY and LAW75,

I want to thank both of you for your responses, help and encouragement. I am late responding because I spent a good part of the day laying on my back and playing with the passenger side regulator mechanism. It was time well spent and I was able to play with a flashlight also. My six-year old grandson thought that was cool too. He is being "groomed" early on as the future custodian for our Healey.

The mechanism is starting to make sense after watching the main arm move back and forward in the regulator to channel bracket when working the mechanism. And, you can see the flex in the main arm and gear as the glass moves up and down in the channel. I think everyone agrees the passenger side regulator has been stress by working it when it needed to be cleaned and re-lubricated; and it should be replaced.

I said the mechanism was "restored" previously because everyone on the Forum says that when they clean parts and have them re-plated. You are correct, none of the worn parts were replaced ten years ago and none of its working clearances were changed. So, I have ordered a new passenger side regulator.

Arm movement within the regulator to channel bracket is very interesting as the arm moves back and forth. I will replace this part also if the newer ones are any longer. Being a little longer would allow the arm to increase lift slightly. I can see how both the regulator and the amount of lift can be optimized for a given set of parts. As of now, I can also tune the movement and lift a small amount by also carefully repositioning the bracket on the bottom channel.

OK, moving the stop bar to its limit and better lubrication within the regulator to channel bracket provided another half inch of lift at the rear of the glass where it was needed. The new regulator should remove any flexing. I am documenting my observations and ideas for the young custodian. He might forget our discussions 50 years from now when he needs to review the information again.

The less you understand a mechanism, the more words, details and pictures help. But, you guys were absolutely correct: "Sorry if I'm not being detailed enough. Sometimes it's best to fiddle around with what someone is trying to explain. The stop bracket is held in place by two screws or bolts. Loosen those move the bracket, tighten them up. It'll be evident where to position the bracket after you roll the window up".

Those instructions made all the difference!

Pictures after adjustment.

Thanks again.

Regards, Bill

​

 

[LAW75]

Great to read/see. Please dont forget to line with plastic before reinstalling trim. You might ? also want to put a layer of heat/nose shield on.