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NYC Helo Crash

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PAUL161

PAUL161

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Odd, When we were flying out of Spring Valley NY into NYC, our Jet Rangers had emergency float gear on the skids that could be activated in a second if a forced water landing was inevitable, I'm a little curious why any of those aircraft are not setup the same way, floats would have more than likely kept the aircraft upright and saved the passengers from drowning. The float gear we had was hidden inside the skid covering and not noticeable to the unknowing, other makes vary. ??? PJ

Helicopter Floatation Gear Deployment Test - Bing video
 
Paul- I just saw TV footage of the helo that crashed in NYC.
The helo did have the floatation bags on the skids but they did not deploy properly.
 
Very interesting - and sad - issue here. This was a "no doors" flight, so all the passengers were very tightly strapped in with safety harnesses.

Sounds good, right?

But the harnesses are fastened *at the back*, not the front. Passengers couldn't releases the harnesses. Man, what a disaster waiting to happen.

And on top of that: "Pilot Richard Vance told investigators a tether from a harness worn by one of the five passengers wrapped around the fuel shutoff lever and "accidentally" cut off the fuel supply causing the chopper's engine to fail Sunday night."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-yo...ral-investigators-working-to-determine-cause/
 
Gliderman8 said:
Paul- I just saw TV footage of the helo that crashed in NYC.
The helo did have the floatation bags on the skids but they did not deploy properly.
Click to expand...

I just watched it again also Elliot and yes it had flotation gear, which makes sense and it looks like the flotation gear on the starboard side didn't deploy until after the port side did, possibly damaged the skid when it hit the water. That would for sure roll it on it's back. Whoever designed and approved the safety harness should be held accountable, never in my 55 years flying career have I heard of a harness that is fastened in the back! Harnesses are ALWAYS designed for emergency egress! Seems like someone made an exception to that rule. :rolleyes2:
 
There are a lot of smartphone videos of the crash. Even if the a/c rolled over on its side and started sinking, a quick release harness would have allowed everyone to get out fast. There were probably no flotation devices (Mae West vests) or floating seat pads, unfortunately.

Also, the pilot says a harness tether accidentally shut off the fuel flow while in flight, causing the crash. Good grief - what kind of engineering design would allow that?

Very sad.
 
Tom there is a fuel shutoff valve between the seats in a Cessna 150. During a flight I had “under the hood” with a flight instructor I noticed the rpms decreasing. The throttle and carb heat were fine but when I reached down to check the fuel valve I found it off! The instructor told me he wanted to see “how I handle it”.
I told him if he touched it again... I’ll let you complete the sentence. Hint: it wouldn’t be pretty :mad:
 
Elliot - on my *first* lesson (a thousand years ago ...), CFI took me up in the training 152. Got to around 3500 AGL and said "I want to show you how safe these planes are."

He cut the engine. We watched the prop stop, and the plane slowly started down.

He said "See, nothing happens even if the engine fails. I'll restart the engine and we'll do some simple turns."

Couldn't get the engine started again. I was close to going nuts.

We made a "hard landing" in a farmer's field. The 152 landing gear was damaged. CFI was fired. Took 30 years for me to get the courage for my second lesson.
 
You did learn how safe the Cessna was though.
 
waltesefalcon said:
You did learn how safe the Cessna was though.
Click to expand...


Now *that* is a very good point!

PicBadLanding.jpg

(We're having our third nor'easter in a week; this is getting tiresome ...)
 
Tom- So you’re saying you flew a glider?
Glad it all worked out.
 
NutmegCT said:
Elliot - on my *first* lesson (a thousand years ago ...), CFI took me up in the training 152. Got to around 3500 AGL and said "I want to show you how safe these planes are."

He cut the engine. We watched the prop stop, and the plane slowly started down.

He said "See, nothing happens even if the engine fails. I'll restart the engine and we'll do some simple turns."

Couldn't get the engine started again. I was close to going nuts.

We made a "hard landing" in a farmer's field. The 152 landing gear was damaged. CFI was fired. Took 30 years for me to get the courage for my second lesson.
Click to expand...

Speaking of emergency landings, I'm reminded of my first ever flight in a helicopter. It was in the early 80s and I was part of a team doing site surveys all over Baffin Island and Labrador to determine the best site locations for North Warning radar systems. Our first "base camp" was Cape Dyer, Baffin Is. We had flown up the day before in a C-130. The next morning, we all loaded into a Bell Helicopter (don't recall the exact model) and were heading out to some remote mountain top to do the first site survey. Very shortly after takeoff, as we flew past the end of the runway ant about 1000 ft and over the cliff that dropped down to the icepack below, the pilot suddenly turned very sharply and headed back to the gravel runway and sort of slide down the runway to land. At the time I did not have my headset on so could not hear what the pilot was saying and thus had no idea what was going on. It wasn't until the helicopter came to a stop and we all piled out that I leased that we had just had an emergency landing due to a sudden loss in oil pressure. The entire helicopter was covered in oil!
The mechanic we had along quickly determined a seal had blown and he replaced the bad seal, then sprayed down the copter with some sort of solvent. After that, we all got back into the bird and, once again, flew off to the remote mountain top!

Looking back, I think I'm glad I didn't know we were having an emergency (I though someone had forgotten some piece of equipment and we were just returning for that). I had to get back on that same helicopter every day for about 3 months. Needless to say I was usually a bit white knuckled every time we hit turbulence over the mountains (which was often). Fun times.
 
Real curious to know if that "tethering" method is a FAA Reg.
 
TRMark said:
Real curious to know if that "tethering" method is a FAA Reg.
Click to expand...
Same here. Or even if the passengers got good instruction on how to get *out* of the harnesses.
 
Basil said:
Speaking of tragedy, a friend and former fellow ROTC student of my Son's, Tammy Archuleta, died much too young in 2003 piloting a Pave Hawk on a mission to rescue wounded children in Afghanistan. https://www.rotorheadsrus.us/documents/archuleta.html

She was an amazing young lady and her death hit my son pretty hard.
Click to expand...

What a real tragedy, such a lovely, highly educated and motivated young lady. It would have been an honor just to know her. PJ
 
I've had my time in rotor-wing aircraft, consider myself lucky to still be upright and breathing. Again I'll say: those things were engineered from the beginning to KILL YOU!

And that business about harnesses being installed with the release behind the seat would have had me screaming at the operators and walking away if I were expected to strap into it. And I'd assume no egress training would be offered to tourists boarding one of those flights. Heck, I won't get on a Ferris Wheel or any other "thrill ride". I went through all the Air Force training to qualify as aircrew: jungle, arctic, water survival. Egress (ejection seat), E&E, altitude chamber et al. Been "wrung out" in everything from Citabrias to F-4's. The whole business of going airborne is DANGEROUS. To do it casually, just to have a look at NYC from altitude would NOT be on my Bucket List! Just get a MAP ferheavenssake. :smirk:
 
It was indeed a tragedy. Too many wrongs in this scenario. No matter how much enjoyment a person has in any type of transportation, you must always be aware. In short a checklist is there for a reason. Heck, I have a mental checklist for Agatha. If she starts, I go...
 
Wow, Judy! That's the same checklist I have here for the MG!
 
I got into a glider after another member of our club had landed the plane. I did my pre-flight check list and all was OK. Off I went and as soon as I was airborne (but still attached to the towplane) I knew something was wrong. The glider needed more than normal trim to keep in level. Since I had run out of available runway I elected to continue on tow and released at 3M feet to sort things out. After I released I found that the plane still required more than normal back pressure on the stick to keep things right. I headed back to the gliderport and made an uneventful landing. After exiting the plane I pulled up the seat and found 80 pounds of ballast that the previous pilot had put there. Horror! From that moment on, I added "check under seat" to my pre-flight check list.
 
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