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My recent decision regarding oil in a '66 3000 with a rebuilt engine
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Keoke
Great Pumpkin
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---You are good to go.:highly_amused:
RAC68
Darth Vader
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Hi All,
After reading the article Derek referenced (thanks Derek), I must admit I now understand what the 0W and 5W mean in a multi-grade oil. I have been using 20W50 VR1 Racing synthetic and am presently ready to change the oil. However, back in NJ, the cost of this oil has gone through the roof and, after reading the article, I realized my choice was not based on understanding of the product and matching it to my use.
Since I drive my Healey year round in dry weather, choosing a Low "W" grade synthetic makes sense to me. Without jumping of a bridge, I was thinking about a multi-grade with a 5W as I am still insecure with anything that starts with 0W. Since the non-"W" number seems to be the guiding grade and now considering flow instead of being guided by pressure, I was thinking a 40.
Now, since ZDDP is an additive that the author does not recommend and suggests it can screw up the formulation of the oil manufacturer, I guess I should see what Castrol provides in their Classic Car edge formulation.
Any suggestions?
Ray(64BJ8P1)
Today, I am going to see if a 5W multi-grade with ZDDP is available and for what price. I was thinking of trying a 5W40 but
After reading the article Derek referenced (thanks Derek), I must admit I now understand what the 0W and 5W mean in a multi-grade oil. I have been using 20W50 VR1 Racing synthetic and am presently ready to change the oil. However, back in NJ, the cost of this oil has gone through the roof and, after reading the article, I realized my choice was not based on understanding of the product and matching it to my use.
Since I drive my Healey year round in dry weather, choosing a Low "W" grade synthetic makes sense to me. Without jumping of a bridge, I was thinking about a multi-grade with a 5W as I am still insecure with anything that starts with 0W. Since the non-"W" number seems to be the guiding grade and now considering flow instead of being guided by pressure, I was thinking a 40.
Now, since ZDDP is an additive that the author does not recommend and suggests it can screw up the formulation of the oil manufacturer, I guess I should see what Castrol provides in their Classic Car edge formulation.
Any suggestions?
Ray(64BJ8P1)
Today, I am going to see if a 5W multi-grade with ZDDP is available and for what price. I was thinking of trying a 5W40 but
Ray,
Shell Rotella Triple comes in a 10W-30 formulation. It contains 1200ppm ZDDP, which is more than enough for an older engine. As you have noted, studies show that adding more is not always better. I have yet to see evidence that any of the "boutique" oils have any more protection (key word) than Rotella, Chevron Delo, or another name brand CJ-4.
When driving only in warm weather you can actually use a higher weight of oil. The lower viscosity capability of a 0W or 5W motor oil helps with cold startups during the winter as well as a tiny bit with fuel mileage. You can guarantee it's the fuel mileage that manufacturers are focusing on when they recommend lower weight oils for new cars. 40+ years ago the owner's manual called for straight 30 or 40 weight oil for summer driving, 10 weight for winter. You could even use the somewhat more available 15W-40 and feel entirely confident.
I don't think that you will easily find a 5W-40 that meets your requirements.
Shell Rotella Triple comes in a 10W-30 formulation. It contains 1200ppm ZDDP, which is more than enough for an older engine. As you have noted, studies show that adding more is not always better. I have yet to see evidence that any of the "boutique" oils have any more protection (key word) than Rotella, Chevron Delo, or another name brand CJ-4.
When driving only in warm weather you can actually use a higher weight of oil. The lower viscosity capability of a 0W or 5W motor oil helps with cold startups during the winter as well as a tiny bit with fuel mileage. You can guarantee it's the fuel mileage that manufacturers are focusing on when they recommend lower weight oils for new cars. 40+ years ago the owner's manual called for straight 30 or 40 weight oil for summer driving, 10 weight for winter. You could even use the somewhat more available 15W-40 and feel entirely confident.
I don't think that you will easily find a 5W-40 that meets your requirements.
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Note that the formulation of ZDTP (or ZDDP, if you prefer) is different for diesel oils than for gasoline oils. The conditions in each engine type are different. ZDTP formulations for diesel engines have higher temperature stability and lower anti-wear properties than ZDTP formulations for gasoline engines. The ZDTP formulations for gasoline engines are formulated to be the opposite.
RAC68
Darth Vader
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Thanks for your reply PHulst. According to the article referenced by Derek, even an evening cool down in Summer would substantially increase the viscosity so why wait.
The Castrol Edge 5W60 was present and available at $9.09 plus Tax per quart. It was the only Edge oil that specifically mentioned the ware agent on the bottle but didn't mention how much.
Jon, another OIL fact I was not aware of. I actually looked at Rotella for diesels and wondered if the differences were significant or manageable. Your comment answered that question.
Of all the issues I have addressed with this car in the past 52 years, I never thought engine oil would be one.
Thanks again,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
The Castrol Edge 5W60 was present and available at $9.09 plus Tax per quart. It was the only Edge oil that specifically mentioned the ware agent on the bottle but didn't mention how much.
Jon, another OIL fact I was not aware of. I actually looked at Rotella for diesels and wondered if the differences were significant or manageable. Your comment answered that question.
Of all the issues I have addressed with this car in the past 52 years, I never thought engine oil would be one.
Thanks again,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
Keoke
Great Pumpkin
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Valvoline 822347 VR1 SAE 20W-50 Racing Motor Oil - 1 Quart Bottle, (Case of 6) Not Synthetic
Hey!! Ray:
ON Amazon for less than $6.00/bottle??
Hey!! Ray:
ON Amazon for less than $6.00/bottle??
andrea
Jedi Knight
Offline
https://picasaweb.google.com/112770...hkey=Gv1sRgCPaY2JSzwZr4Iw#6041015977824961858
https://picasaweb.google.com/112770...hkey=Gv1sRgCPaY2JSzwZr4Iw#6041018265441733106
https://picasaweb.google.com/112770...hkey=Gv1sRgCPaY2JSzwZr4Iw#6041018746772630130
Recently turned all my vehicles and sail boat to this, 100% Synthetic SHELL HELIX Ultra RACING 10W-60 oil - can be used on Fuel- Diesel- and Turbo engines
find at very good price in UE Germany (6,5€) from ebay address indicated on the second slide
very satisfied after a lot of miles and more than a year of use
Probably one of the better Synt oil on market UE- save of shipping expenses can be the order of 20-25 Kg once-the minimum applied from 1-to25kg is 20€
(this opportunity NOT works for extra UE country) NO personal interest with thew seller
Cheers
https://picasaweb.google.com/112770...hkey=Gv1sRgCPaY2JSzwZr4Iw#6041018265441733106
https://picasaweb.google.com/112770...hkey=Gv1sRgCPaY2JSzwZr4Iw#6041018746772630130
Recently turned all my vehicles and sail boat to this, 100% Synthetic SHELL HELIX Ultra RACING 10W-60 oil - can be used on Fuel- Diesel- and Turbo engines
find at very good price in UE Germany (6,5€) from ebay address indicated on the second slide
very satisfied after a lot of miles and more than a year of use
Probably one of the better Synt oil on market UE- save of shipping expenses can be the order of 20-25 Kg once-the minimum applied from 1-to25kg is 20€
(this opportunity NOT works for extra UE country) NO personal interest with thew seller
Cheers
Here is an article on oils that is much easier to read than the one linked earlier. It explains why many in the vintage automobile community are supportive of the use of CJ-4 oils in our engines.
The author is a friend of mine from the other part of my automotive hobby.
Let me know what you think.
The author is a friend of mine from the other part of my automotive hobby.
Let me know what you think.
OP
shortsguy1
Jedi Hopeful
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts, perspectives, and information. Regarding John Turney's comment above, I found this website with a fairly concise explanation of why racing oils or diesel oils may not be ideal for our cars. I have no affiliation with the company, nor any knowledge of the product they are selling:
https://www.cam-shield.com/acatalog/diesel.html
But I would be willing to bet that all of the oils recommended in this thread are better than the oils in the 1950s and 60s, so as Keoke implied, nobody should be losing any sleep on this one.
https://www.cam-shield.com/acatalog/diesel.html
But I would be willing to bet that all of the oils recommended in this thread are better than the oils in the 1950s and 60s, so as Keoke implied, nobody should be losing any sleep on this one.
andrea
Jedi Knight
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Find the chemical analysis of the SHELL 10W60 here
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=257552
ZINC 1135 - NOT bad!
on my classic cars i will change the oil every 3000 Miles +/-
https://www.shell.com/motorist/oils...ynthetic/shell-helix-ultra-racing-10w-60.html
switched from RELINE SYNT OIL x costs in Italy are prohibitive
I have find this on web:
Now true synthetic motor oil products are a different animal altogether...
Synthetic oils are manufactured using pure Group IV Polyalphaolefins (PAO) and Group V diesters and polyolesters (Ester) base oils. These synthetic oils are actually “man-made” by using chemical compounds that contian no conventional crude oil products. They have a synthesized uniform molecular structure, that significantly improves the efficiency and performance of synthetic oil products. (when compared to their petroleum crude-based motor oil competitors)
True man-made synthetic motor oils have lower coefficients of friction (less power robbing drag on the internal engine components), improved thermal (heat) capacity, a higher resistance to shearing and windage (to maintain protection factors at high engine speeds), the ability to cover a very wide oil viscosity range (10w-60), and a lower pour-point (for excellent cold weather anti-friction performance), are just a few of the properties that petroleum (crude based) motor oil products simply cannot match.
Finally, true synthetic oils have no waxes, tars, or other contaminants that will lead to a thick heavy sludge or varnish build-up inside your engine.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=257552
ZINC 1135 - NOT bad!
on my classic cars i will change the oil every 3000 Miles +/-
https://www.shell.com/motorist/oils...ynthetic/shell-helix-ultra-racing-10w-60.html
switched from RELINE SYNT OIL x costs in Italy are prohibitive
I have find this on web:
Now true synthetic motor oil products are a different animal altogether...
Synthetic oils are manufactured using pure Group IV Polyalphaolefins (PAO) and Group V diesters and polyolesters (Ester) base oils. These synthetic oils are actually “man-made” by using chemical compounds that contian no conventional crude oil products. They have a synthesized uniform molecular structure, that significantly improves the efficiency and performance of synthetic oil products. (when compared to their petroleum crude-based motor oil competitors)
True man-made synthetic motor oils have lower coefficients of friction (less power robbing drag on the internal engine components), improved thermal (heat) capacity, a higher resistance to shearing and windage (to maintain protection factors at high engine speeds), the ability to cover a very wide oil viscosity range (10w-60), and a lower pour-point (for excellent cold weather anti-friction performance), are just a few of the properties that petroleum (crude based) motor oil products simply cannot match.
Finally, true synthetic oils have no waxes, tars, or other contaminants that will lead to a thick heavy sludge or varnish build-up inside your engine.
Keoke
Great Pumpkin
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OH! You just gonna love it.---:highly_amused:
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EV--
I cannot find that Mobil product on this page:
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide-2016.pdf
but unless it is a race oil it appears that the zddp content is less than the recommended 1200 ppm.
Given the number of times most people change the oil in their street cars versus the cost of a cam and other engine internals I simply cannot understand why anyone would opt to save a few bucks on their oil and additive choice. FWIW I have used RP racing oils in all of my f/t engines--both street and race--since zinc content first became an issue about 10 years ago and have never lost a cam or tappet. I'm not saying that is the only way to go but why play at or around the lower edge of what is the commonly-accepted limit of zinc content?
I cannot find that Mobil product on this page:
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide-2016.pdf
but unless it is a race oil it appears that the zddp content is less than the recommended 1200 ppm.
Given the number of times most people change the oil in their street cars versus the cost of a cam and other engine internals I simply cannot understand why anyone would opt to save a few bucks on their oil and additive choice. FWIW I have used RP racing oils in all of my f/t engines--both street and race--since zinc content first became an issue about 10 years ago and have never lost a cam or tappet. I'm not saying that is the only way to go but why play at or around the lower edge of what is the commonly-accepted limit of zinc content?
Mobil 1 10 W 60 for Classic Cars is recommended for, amazingly, Classic cars, but I don't understand this flat tappet tosh. Last time I looked inside an average bike engine that does 15,000 rpm it had flat tappets. Most engines do, even now.
I'm not sure what oil you use in Healey engines matters much. As long as it's a good 20 W 50 it'll be fine. My son is doing France, the Alps, Switzerland, Germany and back in late July so we're using Mobil 1 10W60, which is also what you'd race a Healey with, so that if it overheats it won't break down and cause premature wear. The engine is brand new.
I'm not sure what oil you use in Healey engines matters much. As long as it's a good 20 W 50 it'll be fine. My son is doing France, the Alps, Switzerland, Germany and back in late July so we're using Mobil 1 10W60, which is also what you'd race a Healey with, so that if it overheats it won't break down and cause premature wear. The engine is brand new.
As as I said earlier, I contacted Mobil to clarify the situation. It appears that racing engines and older more stressed engines require the same type of synthetic oil. Makes good sense to me.
Search YouTube for Mobil 1 videos and then others for misinformation and conflicting advice. Most of all remember any old oil is better than you got in the sixties.