D.O.A. Camry!

DrEntropy · Oct 2, 2018

Last week Mits' Camry had developed a small loss of coolant, no water in the oil, small coolant drip on the drive, no oil in the coolant. Jacked it up and started to sniff out where the drip came from on Sunday. Suspected the head gasket. Stopped after removing a plastic undertray and a shield on the intake manifold. The decision to explore further would mean rendering the car immobile, likely for a week, maybe more. Decided I was NOT going to learn to speak fluent Toyota. Took it to a trusted pal with a shop on Wednesday, got it back yesterday with a replacement engine. The original did indeed have a head gasket leak, head bolts had ripped out the threads in the block of the original. Machine work and rebuild would have been double what an under-fifty-thou replacement cost and the "newer" mill has a 12/12 warranty. The original had over 200K miles on it, the swap was a no-brainer.

Not a job for the driveway, either: Rainy season.

Not lazy or unskilled, I'm claiming: "Discretion is the better part of valor" here. If we still had the shop, it might have been different.

Alfred E. Neuman · Oct 2, 2018

You gotta know when to back up and punt. That's for sure one of those times. Total no brainer on the replacement. We can normally get a major assembly from LKQ for well under what a major internal repair would cost to repair original. Mainly engines and diffs. Modern Merc transmissions are a different story due to the internal valve body/control unit being married to the car. We get rebuilt transmissions complete with new valve bodies from Mercedes and code them to the car after installation.

DrEntropy · Oct 2, 2018

Yeah, the Benz debacle with the Siamesed mass airflow sensors comes to mind. Digital coding to prevent independents from fixing issues is the bane. All in the name of keeping specific marques from being fixed outside "The Company".

Gimme a V-12 or boxer Ferrari engine from the pre-90's and I've no issue. A silly twin-cam four in a modern Toyota and I am better off to defer to current production shops...

Mebbe if I get a newer Lotus I'd be more inclined to update my knowledge. :smirk:

Gliderman8 · Oct 2, 2018

As I am casually looking to replace my everyday driver, I look at the maintenance/repair ease of any potential candidate. SWMBO said to me "I'm sure you can do any repairs since you've done it lots of time before". I had to explain to her that the new cars make it difficult to even get to where you need to be. And as you say, the "monopoly" codes from the manufacturers adds a whole additional level to deal with.
On my wife RAV4 I am certainly capable of changing the oil but I bring it to the dealer until the warranty runs out... I don't want them to say "it wasn't serviced by Toyota and have them weasel out of a possible warranty repair. IT'S NOT LIKE IT USED TO BE

TR3driver · Oct 2, 2018

Even with the knowledge, time, facilities, etc to rebuild; a cheap factory engine makes more sense to me. I did exactly the same thing (tho in my case, it was the transmission that bit the dust and left SWMBO stranded in the middle of I-10 on a blind curve).

DavidApp · Oct 2, 2018

A friend has a RAV4 and he was saying the dealer wanted to flush all the fluids including the brake fluid every 25000 miles. Is that really necessary or just saw him coming?

David

Basil · Oct 3, 2018

Did that route with an 87 Dodge Daytons Turbo once upon a time. A lot cheaper to replace with a low-milage motor from a salvage yard than rebuild original.

AngliaGT · Oct 3, 2018

I just had the fuel pumps (2) replaced on the '96 Ford F150.
The labor rate was only $60/hour,& it's easiest if you remove the bed.
I could have done it myself,but it might end up taking too long,
and if I ran into something,I'd need to have it towed to a shop.
As this is currently my DD,I couldn't chance it.

bobhustead · Oct 3, 2018

Having learned what I know on points, coils and carburetors, I have never graduated to "modern" engine management. I like to work on the TR and the 1968 Chev swamp buggy, but all our drivers go to the shop.
Bob

NutmegCT · Oct 3, 2018

I bought a brand new Nissan back in 1990. I took it in for the "free" 5K maintenance, and service manager told me Nissan also recommended complete flush of the brake system *and* the automatic transmission every 5K. That was an extra $800.

I'd already read the Nissan service schedule, so I said the schedule showed brake and trans flush weren't indicated until 120K miles.

Manager lowered his voice and said "You're the first person we've ever had who actually read that."

DrEntropy · Oct 3, 2018

Alfred E. Neuman said:
You gotta know when to back up and punt. That's for sure one of those times. Total no brainer on the replacement. We can normally get a major assembly from LKQ for well under what a major internal repair would cost to repair original. Mainly engines and diffs. Modern Merc transmissions are a different story due to the internal valve body/control unit being married to the car. We get rebuilt transmissions complete with new valve bodies from Mercedes and code them to the car after installation.

This replacement was one of the "imported-from-Japan" ones, very clean on the inside, had to swap over the front cover, oil sump and a few other ancillary bits, along with a new chain tensioner. Runs incredibly quiet but I've not driven it yet. SWMBO is monopolizing it! She says it feels "different" as a descriptor, not very definitive, so over the weekend I'll try it out.

GregW · Oct 3, 2018

But Doc, it isn't a "numbers matching" car anymore.

Alfred E. Neuman · Oct 3, 2018

DrEntropy said:
This replacement was one of the "imported-from-Japan" ones, very clean on the inside, had to swap over the front cover, oil sump and a few other ancillary bits, along with a new chain tensioner. Runs incredibly quiet but I've not driven it yet. SWMBO is monopolizing it! She says it feels "different" as a descriptor, not very definitive, so over the weekend I'll try it out.

I'm not sure what it is about engines from Japan, but there's a glut of low mileage clean long blocks for every car imaginable. I've begun to wonder if it doesn't have to do with some type of regulation there to get any engine over about 40k miles off the roads.

Alfred E. Neuman · Oct 3, 2018

NutmegCT said:
I bought a brand new Nissan back in 1990. I took it in for the "free" 5K maintenance, and service manager told me Nissan also recommended complete flush of the brake system *and* the automatic transmission every 5K. That was an extra $800.

I'd already read the Nissan service schedule, so I said the schedule showed brake and trans flush weren't indicated until 120K miles.

Manager lowered his voice and said "You're the first person we've ever had who actually read that."

We do an 80 point inspection on every car that gets a service here, so we check the fluids and replace as needed. Brake fluid with it gets over 3% moisture content, trans and diff based on color of fluid. All wear items are documented every time a car gets an A or B service here. Good way to track the cars that we see regularly. Typically ~40k for a transmission. We're in the humid south, so brake fluid sucks up the H2O pretty quickly here......

TR3driver · Oct 3, 2018

Alfred E. Neuman said:
I'm not sure what it is about engines from Japan, but there's a glut of low mileage clean long blocks for every car imaginable. I've begun to wonder if it doesn't have to do with some type of regulation there to get any engine over about 40k miles off the roads.

Definitely. Their taxes go up sharply when cars get to be more than just a few years old, so people scrap perfectly good cars all the time. We bought the wife's transmission from an outfit that specialized in engines and transmissions from Japan. The shop manager admitted that shipping costs almost as much as the parts in Japan, even though they brought them over by the container-load.

mikephillips · Oct 3, 2018

I too take the Toyota to the shop for most work. I will replace the belt, brake pads/shoes and other such. But it's not worth having specialized tools and computer diagnostics that I'd use no more than a couple times considering the fact it doesn't have issues often.

Alfred E. Neuman · Oct 3, 2018

We have a Prius C as our only car. I ride my bike to work every day, and my wife rides hers most days. We put maybe 3-4k a year on the car. Even being a tech at a MB specialist, I have her take the Prius to our Toyota dealer for all service work. For no other reason than they will have a 100% record that we've serviced the car every single time it's due (and often well before it's due on mileage since we don't drive much). That way if there's ever an issue they can't balk at it because of a lack of service.
Buy typical of dealer experiences, my wife will invariably call me from the service department asking does the car need X or Y they're trying to upsell. Like telling her we needed tires rotated and balanced after I installed them literally 2 days prior.

I'm not sure how multi-make independents can afford to stay on top of both diagnostic tools and training on several different manufacturers. It's hard enough keeping up with one make.

DrEntropy · Oct 4, 2018

A.E.Neuman said:
I'm not sure how multi-make independents can afford to stay on top of both diagnostic tools and training on several different manufacturers. It's hard enough keeping up with one make.

The outfit doing the swap has an interesting business model: The pal was a tech for many years in one of the national chain multi-marque repair shops. He "stepped out" about a decade ago and started his own independent shop. He has a crew of techs "sniped" from various marque-specific dealerships over time. Coupled with things like an RV lift, some other specialty gear and AllData, they seem to be doing quite well.

DavidApp · Oct 4, 2018

Sounds about like the guy I have been watching on you tube.
He has a very good understanding of how the systems work both with the scan tools and the old fashioned way bu observation. He dose it all. Engine swaps, electrical/sensor issues that other shops send him and brake jobs. Small town shop in NY somewhere.

Good time suck.

David

DrEntropy said:
The outfit doing the swap has an interesting business model: The pal was a tech for many years in one of the national chain multi-marque repair shops. He "stepped out" about a decade ago and started his own independent shop. He has a crew of techs "sniped" from various marque-specific dealerships over time. Coupled with things like an RV lift, some other specialty gear and AllData, they seem to be doing quite well. [/COLOR]

waltesefalcon · Oct 4, 2018

I only do easy repairs on my Toyota too. If I tackled anything major I'd probably wind up putting a rag in the filler tube, lighting it, and walking away. I loathe working on new cars.

D.O.A. Camry!

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