Tow truck blues - good analysis for you to ponder

[bigjones]

OK, after the muffler install I drove to the big city to get some home brew supplies. On the way there, it experienced one slight stagger - like maybe a slug of water in with the gas.

Leaves the h/b shop and goes about 1/2 mile and the car quits - luckily it can stagger into a car park. I pop the hood and see the glass fuel filter is empty. I disconnect the fuel line before it get to the filter and crank the engine - no fuel coming out!
Hoping that the 1/4 full gauge is wrong, I walk a mile to the nearest gas station in the blistering heat. Gets back, empties a gallon in the tank. Car will not crank. There is the click but no crank of the engine.
I pushed it and when it got rolling jumped in (this is not recommended). Got up speed and in 2nd gear let out the clutch. Nuttin' honey.
Coasted into another parking lot where there happened to be 2 guys taking a break. They gave me 4 push starts but nothing. One guys says he can smell gas. Gas filter has filled up.
OK, walks back to the h/b shop and asks a guy to come on out a give the car a jump start.
This does not work. Click but nothing else.
So I resigned myself to the $125 tow truck.
Back home, the headlights come on and do not decrease in intensity when I hit the starter..
Looks like I've got at least 2 big problems (mechanical fuel pump and starter motor), don't you think?
Have not done anything - too disgusted at the momoment.

 

[jlaird]

Yep I think you have a bad fuel pump. However, the other prob is most likely just a low battery.

 

[bigjones]

Jack,
Thanks for the quick reply - I'll go ahead and try recharging the battery now.
In my previous post ("Vapour Lock") folks had recommended an electrical pump. Anybody have the Fawcett number handy - apparently there are several and we need one with a low fuel gpm.
Cheers

 

[bigjones]

OK,

Charger when connected to battery indicated it is fully charged.
Multimeter shows 12.52 V across the terminals.

Multimeter shows 25 V when connected to the post on the starter and when I turn the key.

Looks like the starter has STB, what? Then again, how come those push starts didn't work?

 

[JPSmit]

solenoid?

 

[SilentUnicorn]

wiggle all the wires attached to the solenoid and if you feel brave use an old screwdriver across the solenoid terminals to short them together, be careful sparks will fly. Does the car crank then?

It is best to use a remote start switch hooked across the solenoid.....

m

 

[bigjones]

JP and m,

Thanks for the posts.
Solenoid - I put a screwdriver between the post that carries the big wire from the battery to the post that carries the big wire to the starter. Anticlimax - nuttin happened.
Also put a wrench to that (once was) a square bolt coming out the starter - it turns, no problem. It fact it feels very loose - don't know what to make of that. (I've heard that sometimes the starter gets hung up and turning that "bolt" may unfree it)

Remember this is a 1500 - not sure if the ole 1275 is substantially different.

In preparaton to starter removal, how do folks get to that lower bolt? Can it be done from above. I have to admit to y'all, after 3 IPA's, that I don't like putting it up on jack stands and getting underneath - in fact, I done all that muffler/pipe removal/do-nut stuff on my belly.

 

[jlaird]

Miss Agatha is running an Airtex E80165 fuel pump from ORilys. Was about $50 and on the shelf. This is the low pressure one like 2.5 to 3 lbs.

 

[bigjones]

Jack,

Thanks for the Airtex info - I'll check it out.

Talking of which, is it possible, do you think, to run both a mechanical and electric pump. Keeping the (switch operated) electric pump as a back-up for if/when the mechanical one STB. You know, a belts and braces approach. I hate been stuck someplace waiting for a tow truck.

As an example, I have in the trunk another distributor (tested, complete w electronic ignition) that would not take me too long to install if something happens to the distributor or Pertronix.

 

[DrEntropy]

Yup. Mount the electric one toward the rear so it "pushes" rather than has to suck. Only "downside" is the mechanical pump may fail in an odd way: if the diaphragm deteriorates, gas has a path to the crankcase. Not good. Check your dipstick to see if there's "more" oil than normal and a gas odor.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

You can run both pumps if the electric is a free-flow when off.
If you have a couple of spring-loaded check valves, sometimes doesn't work so good.
I run backup electric on one of my Flatheads, with a switch, old Bendix thing looks like a juice can.

On the starter, if you jumpered the high-current legs of the solenoid, and nothing, probably a bad starter.
Before you pull it, hit it hard with a BFH on the case.
If the brushes are stuck back in the holders, that often will get you a couple more starts out of it, and confirm it's a starter.

Dave

One other thing....if running a backup electric through the mechanical, if the diaphram goes bad, you will in short order fill the crankcase with petrol.
So, only use it to prime or get you home in an emergency.

BTDT.

 

[bigjones]

Doc,

I hear you on flooding the crankcase. Not good.
There must be a safe way to do this - have duplicate gas lines with hand operated cut-off valves.

Dave,
Yes, yes, yes! I've been wanting to hit something with a hammer all day. I'll give it a try!

Dave - you are genius! I took a 3' piece of pipe and laid it on the starter motor. Then I whaled on it with a hammer - "Take that! Take that! Take that!"
Tried starting it - it gave out some pathetic whurrring noises - nothing like normal but at least something.

OK, so new starter - any suggestions - locally rebuilt or Moss Motors?

(Note to self: Put pipe and hammer in trunk as future diagnostic tools)

 

[Jim_Gruber]

I used that same pump on Bugsy my '68, perfect fit, makes tic-tic-tic sounds when it should only 3 psi and does not scream like some other pumps I tried. $45 at my local Advance Auto a year ago.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

You've never lived until you get called out on some General Misunderstanding, in the pouring rain, and have to lay in the mud on yer back with a BFH and smack the starter while the customer holds the key to "start" so you can get it back to the shop.

One of the reasons (or so I'vbe been told) LBC's went to knockoff wires.....so's you'd have a BFH in the boot to "assist" the starter.

 

[Bayless]

Gotta remember though the BRSOR (big rock side of the road) is usually an adequate substitute for the BFH and you don't have to overload your boot with otherwise useless tools.

 

[SilentUnicorn]

Check your battery ground.

m

 

[Sarastro]

Jack,
Thanks for the quick reply - I'll go ahead and try recharging the battery now.
In my previous post ("Vapour Lock") folks had recommended an electrical pump. Anybody have the Fawcett number handy - apparently there are several and we need one with a low fuel gpm.
Cheers

These get new numbers every week, it seems, so the best thing is just to do a search online for FACET or Purolator (they bought Facet some years ago) and see who has one with the right specs. You want one with no more than 3.5 PSI output pressure, even 2 PSI is OK. Flow rate doesn't matter, as they all are more than adequate for any spridget.

Another option, which I do, is to get one with a higher pressure and use a regulator. The Holley one works pretty well.

The pumps cost $50-$55. You can get the Holley regulator for $25-$30.

 

[bthompson]

Remember this is a 1500 - not sure if the ole 1275 is substantially different.

In preparaton to starter removal, how do folks get to that lower bolt? Can it be done from above. I have to admit to y'all, after 3 IPA's, that I don't like putting it up on jack stands and getting underneath - in fact, I done all that muffler/pipe removal/do-nut stuff on my belly.

I've removed the starter on Nigel a couple of times--once in a Wal-Mart parking lot, again in a front yard--neither of them planned. You can get to the lower bolt from the bottom, without raising the car. Two spanners will work, a socket wrench with an extension is easier. It isn't easy access: you can't see what you're doing, everything is covered in "rustproofing," and I remember very sore shoulders and turning half a flat at a time...but it can be done.

 

[DrEntropy]

The preferred starter whacker here is a cricket bat. :smirk:

A really good pump is a Carter #P60504. OEM use is as a submerged 'lift pump' on FI engines. We've put 'em on about anything SU'd or Weber'd. I run one on my Spider now. Three years, daily transport and no issues.

 

[bthompson]

I run one on my Spider now.

What, no SPICA?!? :shocked: I'm shocked. <span style="font-style: italic">Shocked!</span>