Smitty's Healey 5-Speed info???

[CharlieCarpenter]

Anyone know the status of the guy who bought out Smitty's? I see the Healey 5-Speed ad in the magazines but cannot reach anyone at the phone numbers. Today the operator cut in with "this number is no longer taking calls"

 

[bighly]

Hi Charlie,

I have not heard anything from Pete in a while. I did talk to him and got a pilot bush from him right after he took over.

Let me know if you hear anything.

Tracy

 

[Bob McElwee]

I'm opening this back up because I may be in need of some tranny work. I have an OD that is 'sticking on'. So far is will pop loose when I gently let the clutch out in reverse but not far enough to fully engage.
If I have to pull the tranny, then I think I will consider putting a Toyota five speed in.
Does anyone know if the Smitty/Pete five speed kit is still available?

 

[Dave Richards]

Man, I don't know much, but I know that's like a cardinal sin or something to put that thing in reverse with the OD engaged, might want to consider not using it, it could be something as simple as the solenoid, or some other adjustment, or maybe a fluid change and cleaning the screens, they'd be easy to check. Dave Russell, or Keoke, could shed some light on it...

 

[Dave Russell]

Man, I don't know much, but I know that's like a cardinal sin or something to put that thing in reverse with the OD engaged, might want to consider not using it

Cardinal sin is a pretty good way to describe it. It's pretty likely that serious damage to the Sprague (one way) clutch has occurred by now.

Assuming that the shift lever switch & the dash switch are working & that the solenoid is not actually operated when it should be off:
There are a few things you can check from the outside that would cause the OD to self engage or fail to disengage.

1- On the RH side near the front of the OD is a brass plug. Under this plug are a spring, a spring follower, a ball valve, & a operating valve spindle. There is a tiny hole in the side of the spindle that can become plugged. Clean this hole & the hollow center of the spindle.

2- The ball seals on the end of the spindle when the OD solenoid is operated & at the same time lifts from it's lower seat to allow fluid flow into the operating pistons. If the ball doesn't seal on it's lower seat the OD will not release. Check the ball seating on the spindle end & the lower seat. When the ball returns to it's seat oil pressure is cut off from the operating pistons & the pressure is relieved from the pistons via the tiny hole in the spindle.

3- The solenoid could be mis-adjusted to where it is not letting the spindle & ball drop far enough for the ball to seal on the lower seat when the solenoid releases.

Other --
The most likely internal problem would be that the OD release springs are too weak to disengage the OD.

The 5 speed would be a lot easier to do maintenance on.
D

Edit - Attached a pic of the operating valve.
D

 

[Keoke]

Hi Bob / Charlie, I had a chat with Smitty about a month ago and he indicated that the five speed conversion kit was still available from the new owner. These earlier inquiries occurred around the holidays and the new owner may have just taken one too.---Fwiw--Keoke

 

[Dave Richards]

1- On the RH side near the front of the OD is a brass plug. Under this plug are a spring, a spring follower, a ball valve, & a operating valve spindle. There is a tiny hole in the side of the spindle that can become plugged. Clean this hole & the hollow center of the spindle.

2- The ball seals on the end of the spindle when the OD solenoid is operated & at the same time lifts from it's lower seat to allow fluid flow into the operating pistons. If the ball doesn't seal on it's lower seat the OD will not release. Check the ball seating on the spindle end & the lower seat. When the ball returns to it's seat oil pressure is cut off from the operating pistons & the pressure is relieved from the pistons via the tiny hole in the spindle.


D

It's a marvel to me that they even thought of a way to do this!

 

[Bob McElwee]

The OD seems to work fine most of the time. It will not engage or engage erractically after a long (hot) day of driving. It also does not stick on all the time.
The operating valve will be the first thing checked because all the other stuff appears to be working/adjusted correctly. Thanks for the diagram.
Dave, if the Sprague clutch is seriously damaged would there be any associated symptoms? Noise? Roughness in the drive train?
Looks like I'm going to have to park so I don't have to use reverse when we go to the Texas Round-Up!

 

[Dave Russell]

The OD seems to work fine most of the time. It will not engage or engage erractically after a long (hot) day of driving. It also does not stick on all the time.

Dave, if the Sprague clutch is seriously damaged would there be any associated symptoms? Noise? Roughness in the drive train?

Hi Bob,
The OD sticking on when hot is likely caused by weak release springs inside. There are eight rather husky coil springs that shift the OD cone clutches from OD to direct drive when hydraulic pressure is removed. Commonly, when this happens, a rap on the brake ring, forward part of the OD case, with a lead hammer will release the "stuck" clutch. Trying to back up while in OD will also maybe release the stuck clutch but it's risky. If you force it too much, there will be broken parts.

Symptoms of a bad Sprague (unidirectional clutch) would likely be momentary over reving when shifting into OD or if bad enough, slipping in direct drive. Hopefully yours hasn't been damaged by forcing things in reverse.

Best of luck to you & keep the hammer handy, & do check the other items,
D

 

[Johnny]

<span style="color: #000099">"The OD sticking on when hot is likely caused by weak release springs inside. There are eight rather husky coil springs that shift the OD cone clutches from OD to direct drive when hydraulic pressure is removed. Commonly, when this happens, a rap on the brake ring, forward part of the OD case, with a lead hammer will release the "stuck" clutch. Trying to back up while in OD will also maybe release the stuck clutch but it's risky."</span>

Interesting, I found that the ashtray on a side shifter sits directly in line with the aforementioned OD case. By drilling a hole in the bottom of the ashtray one could disengage the stuck OD by lifting the ashtray and placing a center punch in the hole and a slight rap will work. Don't ask how I found this out.

 

[bighly]

I'm opening this back up because I may be in need of some tranny work. I have an OD that is 'sticking on'. So far is will pop loose when I gently let the clutch out in reverse but not far enough to fully engage.
If I have to pull the tranny, then I think I will consider putting a Toyota five speed in.
Does anyone know if the Smitty/Pete five speed kit is still available?

Should still be available. Call me if you have any questions. 408-394-3444 cell

 

[CharlieCarpenter]

Just to report back on the status of the new owner from the standpoint of my original question. After leaving a few voice messages, I eventually was able to speak with Pete on a few occasions to determine exactly which parts I needed for the conversion and recently took delivery of the conversion kit plus some Toyota parts. He was very helpful and responsive. I bought a used Toyota 5-speed Pick-up transmission locally and hopefully it will be installed in my BN6 in the near future. I thought long and hard on making the conversion from original but since I honestly plan to drive the BN6 daily I wanted the creature comforts and security of smooth shifting, Lampert 3:54 gear rearend, Disc brakes on front, Dual fuel pumps, Electronic ignition, coolant overflow tank and a gear reduction starter. With my BJ7 I'm always looking for an extra gear. Hopefully I won't be with the BN6.

 

[Bob McElwee]

If I had to guess, I would go with the weak springs. I don't think I've done serious damage yet because it feels like it is still working OK with no apparent slippage. I realize I'm on borrowed time and usually the only way to fix OD internals is to pull the tranny and OD. I've heard the OD can be pulled while leaving the tranny in but I don't know how easy that is. If I have to pull them then I'm going to seriously consider the 5 speed. We drive a lot and it would just be 'easier'.
Johnny, maybe next Tuesday we can have a mini tech session at the meeting so you can show me the exact placement and 'pounding' technique to use to disengage my OD. Ah, it is nice to know "Get a bigger hammer" still applies. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

I did get a phone number for Pete Delaney - 704.455.2585

 

[healeybn4]

Charlie,
I got a 5 speed kit from Pete Dulaney before last Thanksgiving and installed it in my 57 Longbridge. I am very pleased with it. Good luck

John Hummer
57 Longbridge BN4