New 2005 Cars, Cheers & Jeers!

[Bret]

Hey Gang,

Ok Scanning over the newest issue of Road & Track. I was both saddened and repulsed by all of the pathetic offerings for 2005 to the North America car buyers.

Topping the list of Cheers for me:
1) Aston Martin’s DB9. Not that I will ever be able to get one but finally a replacement for the old & venerable DB7.
2) New C6 Corvette. I wasn’t that impressed at first, but its styling has grown on me.
3) Chryslers: Crossfire SRT-6. I liked this platform from the start but now it’s got a 330HP from a Supercharged V6. Also 300c SRT-8. Ugly car but it has a “Hemi on steroids” with 425hp. Can’t wait for the new Dodge Charger!
4) Ford’s coming out swinging this year too it seems. With its new GT40 and the all new Mustang GT. I am looking forward to seeing what Ford’s SVT brain trust does with those platforms.
5) Jaguar’s all alloy bodied XK sedan & a 390hp XKR. Too cool for words.
6) Lotus Elise. Honorable mention - if for no other reason than the fact that they are finally back in the US.
Pontiac seems to be finally trying to live up to its name as GMs performance division with several offerings: The GTO with RWD (400hp), the Grand Prix GTP Supercharged V6 (260hp) still FWD and the New “V8 powered” Bonneville (275hp) again still in FWD.

And that sadly is the best I can pullout of the lineup for 2005. Oh sure there are one or two respectable carry over platforms from previous years still to be had. But even with those taken into account, most of the cars listed are watered down mundane cookie cutter platforms that have seem to no sole. Suited for nothing more than basic transportation for the masses you might find on airport rental cars lots.

With offerings like these - No wonder so many people are flocking in droves to Trucks & SUVs in record numbers.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif

 

[vagt6]

How about the '05 MINI Cooper S? 170 BHP, 1/4 mile times in the fifteen second range at 94 MPH. BMW engineering, too. All for less than $24,000.

And if you really want some thrills, get the John Cooper "Works" package for an additional $6K: 212 BHP, VERY fast!

I'm a bit prejudiced since I just ordered a S, but it's a lot of car for the money. I test drove a lot of cars in this price range, found none lived up to the MINI. And the resale value is phenominal. Year-old models are going for roughly the same price as a new one!

 

[Bret]

[ QUOTE ]
How about the '05 MINI Cooper S? 170 BHP, 1/4 mile times in the fifteen second range at 94 MPH. BMW engineering, too. All for less than $24,000.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really have anything against the new Mini personally. Fact is, a rag top Cooper S could have made my short list above. But sadly like the new VW Bettle the Mini seems to be in dire need of a oophorectomy.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[huck6]

"oophorectomy"??

I am hoping that the Pontiac Solstice makes it out true to the form of the prototype and in its originally targeted price range.

 

[Carlover325]

I do not like the 2005 Corvette, but the '05 Mustang is very nice car, it combines the modern look with the sleek lines of the '60s Mustangs.

 

[Bruce Bowker]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not like the 2005 Corvette, but the '05 Mustang is very nice car, it combines the modern look with the sleek lines of the '60s Mustangs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was going to say.

Bruce

 

[Super 7]

[ QUOTE ]
How about the '05 MINI Cooper S? 170 BHP, 1/4 mile times in the fifteen second range at 94 MPH. BMW engineering, too. All for less than $24,000.



[/ QUOTE ]

Can you actually get one for list?

When I tried, in 2002, you absolutely positively could not, and in Portland at least, you couldn't even get on a waiting list at the dealer.

The best deal I could finsd was to pay a speculator $1800.00 over list for a new car which was not exactly what I would have ordered.

Like buying an Elise now.

 

[Bruce Bowker]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you actually get one for list?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure that gouging is over. Happens a lot with a new car that is in demand. The Miata was the same but it all dies down soon enough.

Bruce

 

[Bret]

Lots of folks don’t like the new Stang. But I ain’t one of’em.

The only downside/surprise is that it uses a live solid rear axle, rather than a carry over of the independent rear set-up that served the last Mustang so well. I’ve read that this was an “purely economic” decision. It seems that while Bill Ford is a Mustang enthusiast – he held the design team to strict profit margin projections.

That said I have heard that the rear suspension isn’t as bad as some might think. Thanks to a total re-design of the entire rear suspension (Shocks & Springs) layout.

Still, I really like the new Mustang and can’t wait for my first test drive.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[waltesefalcon]

I like the look of the new Mustang also. I also agree that the new corvette is rather lacking in appeal, but that seems to be Chevy's new direction, building things which do not appeal to many people, kinda like there S10 replacement.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

[ QUOTE ]
but that seems to be Chevy's new direction, building things which do not appeal to many people, kinda like there S10 replacement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, what's up with the front grille/headlight design??? I remember reading a description of the new direction they're taking: "They look like angry kitchen appliances."

Mickey

 

[vagt6]

Regarding the MINI, I paid $660 over MSRP "sticker" price, this was a pure dealer add-on, more affectionately termed "rip-off". But I paid it happily since the other two dealers near me had a similar fee.

I'm supposed to pick the MINI S up tomorrow, 10/12, ordered it on Sept. 2. I've heard of some folks out west waiting up to 5 months to get one!

Sadly, the factory says not to rev it past 4500 rpm for the first 1250 miles! I'm not sure I can do it, but will try!

Cheers!

 

[Super 7]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding the MINI, I paid $660 over MSRP "sticker" price, this was a pure dealer add-on, more affectionately termed "rip-off". But I paid it happily since the other two dealers near me had a similar fee.

Cheers!

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you buy the regular, or the "S" ?

One of my coworkers bought his wife an "S" last year in Denver for list, but he had to wait like 9 months. Also, he has bought several BMW's like M3's and M5's there, so they look at him as a cash cow.

 

[90 XJ-S]

[ QUOTE ]
Sadly, the factory says not to rev it past 4500 rpm for the first 1250 miles! I'm not sure I can do it, but will try!


[/ QUOTE ]

625 miles/day X 2 = /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

You can do it!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Mike

 

[aeronca65t]

To me, the best deal in terms of bang for the buck is a Dodge Neon SRT-4.
Almost as fast as a Viper, it can run away from most other cars, including a Boxter and a 350Z.
0-60 is around 5.6 seconds with quarter-mile ET of 14.2 seconds. Top speed is 153 MPH.
All of this for around $20,000 USD and it has 4 doors to boot (and in my view, the fact that it looks like a grocery-getter or an economy rental car is even better). Decent gas mileage too.
And, it's made in America.
The SRT-4 also handles well and has great brakes. I saw one turn better times at one of our Time Trials (Pocono) than a 300 HP Subaru WRX-STi. Independant testers report anywhere from 225 to 248 HP at the drive wheels.

I also think there's a ton of other neat cars as well, especially the VW Golf Six, MINI Cooper, Sentra SE-R, Mazda 3, Mazdaspeed MX-5, WRX and Ford Focus SVT.
The Austalian-built GTO looks neat as retro-deal, but I know I'd get tired of such a big and thirsty car.

 

[Baxter]

Aeronca I agree and disagree... the SRT-4 is almost certainly the best performing car for the money out there.
I heard 0-60 was more likie 6 seconds, but that's a piddly point. It's a seriously fast car for the money. Nothing at 20k will get close, that I can think of.
But the handling isn't all that great -- turn-in stinks, body roll and understeer are excessive, and according to folks I've talked to, the first generation Neon RT is a better handling car, all the way around. One would hope the new Neons are built better than the first generation, but I've seen no real reason to believe that.

And your Subaru driver must've fallen asleep at the wheel. Forget the extra 50-80 horsepower... he should have turned better times on sheer grip.

I probably sound harsh. I haven't had my coffee. I was just trying to say the Neon is a super deal, but not a super car.

 

[Super 7]

There is no 2005 Focus SVT.

I kind of like the Neon, but I can't go with the boy racer tack ons. I wish they had a sleeper version.

My favorite new car is probably the small Acura RSX formerly known as Integra. The cheap one, not the 200 horsepower one, because the fast one is not available without leather. I really don't like leather.

 

[PC]

[ QUOTE ]
...not the 200 horsepower one, because the fast one is not available without leather. I really don't like leather.

[/ QUOTE ]
For the extra 50 horses I could put up with leather./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

I'll bet it wouldn't be hard to find somebody with a standard model that would be willing to swap interiors.


PC.

 

[rovernut]

THe new Stang looks good i think but i wish they would have concaved the back tail lights ALA the 67 and had chrome separation strips .........would have really been a retro touch, but hey you can,t have everything.......The new Vette meanwhile makes me long for the days GM made cars that looked like what people wanted......Oh well guess we get Chrysler for that....ARG and i,m a GM fan

 

[sammyb]

I've been in the 2005 Corvette, and as a 2002 C5 Corvette owner, I can honestly say that outside of the fixed headlights, at speed, it looks like the C5 Corvette! To say that it's not a good looking car, I can't say I agree. It looks like a C5 meets a Ferrari and new Viper. It looks great, but nothing revolutionary. It will sell well (if they ever start the production line again after they stopped it when the manual trannies started failing.)

Here's the argument against the Mustang: It looks great to us -- those who remember and love the '65-'68 look. Problem is that -WE'RE NOT THE TARGET!- We'll never buy the 'Stang, because we're out of the 16-28 year old sweet spot. You'll notice the other cars targeted at this demographic (Acura RSX, Scion, Civic) all look cutting-edge modern...that's what kids want.

It's a huge problem with Ford right now...they are only building retro-looking cars. That means that 10 years from now, there are no "new" looking vehicles. You can't only sell to people who liked your cars 30 years ago. You need to get the current market.

There are some great cars on the market. Too bad the only great larger sedans (BMW 7series, Merc S500, Infiniti Q45) all are $60K!!!