TR2/3/3A Fuel pump and who knows what else TR3a

[Anthony_S]

Well here is my story, I havn't looked into anything yet but I thought I would see what others might have to say.

A couple of days ago on my way home from work I shifted down from 4th to 3rd to get on the exit ramp and when I sped up again to shift into 4th I noticed the car kind of stumbled and didn't accelerate smoothly. I got on the Hwy and things seemed fine. When I exited for my place I had to shift down to 1st because of the stop light. When I let out the clutch and went to accelerate it was not smooth at all and putted as I gained speed and shifted through the gears as I accelerated. It did this every time I had to shift down and then re-accelerate. So I got home and opened the hood and nothing seemed off but when I would pull the throttle under the hood it wasn't a smooth accelerate/rev, it was more putsy. So I parked it to look at it later when I had more time. So I came out this morning and opened the hood and there was a puddle of gas on top of the fuel pump and a puddle on the ground. Couldn't quite tell where it was coming from. I started the car up and it was still doing the same putsy thing. But this time I listened more closely and there is a sound coming from under the rear of the valve cover that I never really noticed before. Im thinking something happened under there and maybe thats why it is putsy. The fuel pump could be apart of it too I suppose. So I know the fuel pump will have to come off and be looked at. Is there a shut off valve for the gas line somewhere?

Thanks in advance
Anthony!

 

[NutmegCT]

Anthony - I'm no expert, but I doubt the "sound coming from under the rear of the valve cover" is related to the fuel problem.

Engine hesitation may be a fuel flow issue: cylinders not getting enough fuel.

I had a similar engine hesitation problem until I discovered the hose clamp that connects the fuel line to the fuel sediment bowl/pump was loose. Yours may be set up different, but that's the way mine is.

Gas was spurting out of the line, onto the top of the fuel pump. The fuel line on mine rises vertically from under the car, and connects to a rubber fuel line which feeds into the fuel sediment bowl pipe.

I replaced the bogus clamp, tightened it up, and all is well. No fuel splatter, and no engine hesitation.

There are other possible causes for your problem(s) of course. Others with more experience will share their views.

Tom

 

[NutmegCT]

PS - unless it's been disconnected (like mine), the fuel shut-off is on the engine side of the left front fender, near the fuel sediment bowl. The valve has a round knurled knob at the top.

Careful - if you force it and it breaks, you may have a sudden rush of gas all over the floor.

Tom

 

[Geo Hahn]

The fuel shut-off was deleted somewhere in the TR3A range (e.g. my TS47xxx didn't get one). I use fule ine clamping pliers on the soft line though there was a time when I used a C-clamp and little blocks of wood. Some use vise-grips but that must be done with care to avoid damaging the line.

The leak may be as simple as needing to tighten the outlet line.

I agree it is unlikely that the running problem (and noise) you describe is realted to the observed fuel leak.

 

[bobhustead]

Likely problem could range from blockage of the fuel line where it exits the tank, or where it enters the valve, to clogged filter (if you have one), to fuel pump problem. Take the fuel input hose off the pump and see what kind of flow you get out of it by simple gravity (into a catch can). Let it flow a quart or so, because an incomplete occlusion will allow the fuel line to fill s-l-o-w-l-y and the first part of the flow will look pretty good, but it is just draining the line. If the flow is bad, disconnect the incoming line from the valve and blow it out with compressed air toward the tank. Blow the valve out backward as well and look at the flow again. When the flow from tank to pump is good, hook it back up and move to the pump. Check the sediment bowl for trash and clean it if dirty. Put it back on. Take the input hose off the rear carb and watch it as you pump the manual lever on the pump. After about 10 strokes, you should see a good stream. If not you probably have a pump problem.
Bob

 

[mrv8q]

. I use fule ine clamping pliers on the soft line though there was a time when I used a C-clamp and little blocks of wood. Some use vise-grips but that must be done with care to avoid damaging the line..

I use a golf tee in the fuel line and a small hose clamp....

 

[TR3driver]

Personally, I'd get the valve cover off and look for that noise. Although you certainly need to tend to the fuel leak, I doubt it is related to the poor running.

As noted, your car won't have the shutoff unless someone has added it in the past. But here's a shot of it, just in case:

 

[Anthony_S]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. Im pretty sure mine doesn't have the shut off valve. I think the noise and the fuel are two separate issues for sure, just happened to happen at the same time

 

[Anthony_S]

Okay, so I took a closer look at the car yesterday. I pulled of the valve cover first and everything looked okay. Started it up quick and could still here the sound. I decided to check the oil and it was extremely low! Added some oil and the sound went away. I guessing that was the problem there with the sound. So the engine putsy thing must be related to the fuel pump. I looked at that and noticed it seeping out around the top of the fuel pump. I tightened the screws around it, quite loose by the way, and that helped a ton but it is still ever so slowly weeping. I also tightened the fittings and clamps. I started it up and took it around the block but it was still very putsy. I am thinking the pump is not working properly. Any of this sound familiar? Should I just replace the pump? I took a video of it with sound if that would help not sure how or where to post it though.

Thanks
Anthony!

 

[TR4nut]

Anthony-

Most of what I've seen and read about is fuel pumps that completely fail - I suspect yours is still working, I'd consider replacing it to get rid of the leakage issue but it may not fix the hesitation issue.

Randy

 

[TR3driver]

Personally, I would rebuild the original rather than replacing it. The reproduction pumps have been dodgy for a long time; I've even heard stories of them falling apart and breaking the camshaft! Some of them even lack the priming lever, which I find handy from time to time.

If it hasn't been replaced in the past 30 years or so, your old pump diaphragm is almost certainly not compatible with modern "oxygenated" gasoline and is turning to goo.

I put the TRF rebuild kit in my TR3, and was quite happy with it. The price is double what some other vendors charge, but IMO the quality was worth it. Many if not all of the others don't include all the parts or have a plastic screen that doesn't hold up well. The TRF kit also includes a nitrile rubber seal for the sediment bowl that works much better than the original cork.

But I agree with Randy, I doubt that is your hesitation issue.

 

[Anthony_S]

Well thanks for the info on the pump, I will look into getting one of those rebuild kits then. Any ideas on what the hesitation might be??

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Anthony -

I know you're equating the issue with fuel delivery, especially since you've identified a problem there. But be sure and check out potential ignition issues as well. I've often been fooled by what I thought were fuel problems that turned out to be an electrical problem.

 

[TR3driver]

Any ideas on what the hesitation might be??

No, but I would probably start by checking the oil in the dashpots, then take a look at the plugs, points and condenser. Acceleration puts an extra load on the ignition system, so it's not unusual for marginal components to show up then.

With the engine sitting there idling smoothly, the float bowls are almost certainly full. Even if the pump quit instantly when you touched the throttle, the engine would run for several seconds on the fuel in the bowls. Problems with limited fuel delivery almost always show up as not being able to drive over a certain speed; since it takes more fuel to even drive at a constant speed than to rev the engine up with no load.

 

[Anthony_S]

hmmm, okay...all this makes sense.

 

[NutmegCT]

Anthony - I found an old post of yours from August 2011:

"So the last few times I have driven the TR I have noticed as I accelerate in the upper speed range from 60-70 the engine seems to have a slight hiccup. Instead of a smooth acceleration it will be gaining speed then have a slight miss, skip or hiccup....best way I can describe it. It isnt continuous either. Like it loses a bit of power, maybe something is sticking or I don't know really. Any thoughts on this. I know I need to do a full tune-up on the engine which will probably make all the difference but I am curious what this may be."

Sounds like you've been having the problem for nearly a year. Did you try any of the suggestions made over the last year? clogged sediment bowl screen, replace ignition coil, points, dist. cap, wires, plug gaps, etc.?

Did you finish the carb rebuild you were doing back in March of this year?

By the way, the pictures show you have one fine looking TR - like it just came from the factory. Congrats!

Tom

 

[Anthony_S]

Hey Tom,

Yeah this problem is a bit different and I did replace the coil, wires, plugs, cap, rotor, the whole points plate with condenser. I rebuilt the carbs, timed it and checked the valve clearances. It has actually been running great. The more I think about it I am going to check the spark plugs,they may be dirty or something....maybe I am running too rich or lean. Also double check the ignition system. I haven't had a lot of time to dive into it lately I'm just fishing for ideas so I appreciate all the comments

How or where would I post a video, then you could all hear it.

Thanks for the compliments

Anthony!

 

[NutmegCT]

Video is easy. Step 1: upload video to YouTube.

Step 2: make a post here (not a "quick reply") and click the video icon (looks like a blue TV screen) at the top of the post window. Then just enter the full YouTube url of the video itself.

Tom

 

[Anthony_S]

Okay, hope this works...please forgive the movement and wind noise. I was driving around the block this morning. You can hear it best when I stop and take off again.

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/oC8ok0Psuyk[/VIDEO]

 

[NutmegCT]

hmmm - wind noise does make it tough ... but when you're stopped the engine sounds like it's even idling rough.

Does it idle like that all the time? Has it been like that all year? or only after you rebuilt the carbs, etc.?

Carbs and mixture set correctly? Oil in the dampers? Spark plugs gapped properly?

Tom