Fuel injection

[TRdynamo]

Any hope that Moss or maybe someone else would make a decent fuel injection setup for the TR6? Something that is fairly bolt on, doesnt take a Ferrari race team to set up (haha) Just wondering, since I see that Moss will soon be releasing a fuel injection set up for the MGB. Just seems unfair that Triumph guys get stuck with little technological advance in their cars technology. Gee sure would be awesome to have the TR run super smooth with great reliability and still smoke most sports cars. Although that sort of thing is a pipedream (Figure a good 10,000 bucks into the engine and drivetrain can solve that pipedream real quick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) Ive just had too much pondering I suppose, anyone else have input on what I've spoke of? Sure would like to hear some ideas as to how we could put some good technology advances into our Triumphs.

Oh and if you purists have even read this far, I know this article is disturbing to you and that I am probably hated (accounted for this issue haha) Please do not look down on me, as I do appreciate purity as well as advancement.

-TRevor

 

[swift6]

Since early reports are placing that MGB system at close to $2k. I don't want to know what Moss might price a TR6 system at. Revington TR has a Multi-Port kit in four different versions for TR2-6. The TR6 kits start to pass $4k pretty quickly with the exchange rate, could even be pushing $5k. It's a been a while since I looked at them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/computer.gif

I wouldn't mind seeing an Aluminium head for the TR6 though. They have them already for TR2-4A.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[Andrew Mace]

One problem is numbers. There were LOTS more MGBs made than there were TR6s (even adding in the TR250/TR5).

Of course, there WAS fuel injection available for the six, just not in the US. It was available not only on the TR5 and TR6 but also on the big Triumph saloons.

Finally, there ARE folks doing modern FI setups for these cars. Check out <https://www.triumphspitfire.com/carbchoices.html> for a bit of an introduction to the topic.

 

[StagByTriumph]

You just are not looking in the right spots. At VTR 2005 there was a Technical Session on fuel injection relative to Triumphs put on by a specialist, Mark Fisher of Injection Connection LTD.
(See what you miss by not going to VTR conventions!, this was just one of at least 8 great technical sessions put on by people in the know)

Contact Mark at:
1676 Stockton Lane
Crystal Lake, Illinois USA 60016-2023
(815) 477-2880
Email: info@injcon.com

Also TWM makes direct bold in throttle bodies to replace SU and ZS 1.5 and 1.75 carburetors. See them at
https://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/ThrottleBody-FR.html

Of course, no financial interest in seither of these companies.

 

[RomanH]

Found this guy on the web that has a kit to convert the ZS carbs to throtle body fuel injection.
https://www.topshamautoparts.com/tr6/index.htm
From the web site all told the price is about $1500 and the engine bay looks like it is untouched.

Roman

 

[TRdynamo]

I like that TWM setup, anybody know how reliable and streetable that setup is? And would you need to put a different cam in for that setup or would the stock cam be sufficient?

And yes I knew there were fuel injection setups out there in the market, just no systems that I found to be noteworthy. I also knew about the euro TR6' being fuel injected, just dont feel like bothering with an old setup like that, although it would be nice to own a 6 with the original setup like that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

And speaking of an aluminum head, that'd be a great idea. I'm sure racers and enthusiasts would both love to have an aluminum head. Any weight spared in that heavy engine would do the car great (I even recall reading that a V8 with aluminum heads is lighter than the stock TR6 motor.)

-TRevor

 

[Guest]

Shawn,

The Revington kits are all over 3k uk, so waaay over 5k by the time they get to the us.

TRevor,

If you just want EFI then I'd say do a Revington kit. They are pretty much drop in, and work. You are a bit restricted though - you can only really do n/a, no turbo or s/c as well.

If you want cheaper, and slightly less power, then go TBI - call Rick Patten - the link is above. Drop in kit, looks almost stock. Relatively cheap. ECU setup ready made, and relatively inexpensive (because it's not very sophisticated compared to a modern car). That's not a knock, just a statement of fact.

I'll get on my soapbox now, because I'm part way through converting to EFI. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

I figured if you are going to go to all this trouble and expense then why settle for 2nd best. I think to get the best out of the car you need some sort of forced induction. Personally I prefer superchargers to turbos - the car won't rev very high because the crank is a poor design, and turbos have issues at low rpms. (I know you can get round them, but it's more trouble than I care for).

So EFI. Two main issues -
1. Intake Manifold
2. EMS

1. Intake manifold:

Simple - TWM are coming out with a 'proper' 6 body setup for the TR6 next year. It's on their site as under development, and there is a thread about it on here. $4200, and the plenum is n/a only, so no turbo or s/c. Looks nice, but that's a LOT of money. The 6 throttle bodies look like a nightmare to balance the flow when it gets a few miles on it.

Slightly less simple - there are places that will make you a custom intake manifold for your car for only a little more than the TWM TBI setup mentioned above. I'll post pics of mine when it comes back, but it's not due for another 10 weeks so be prepared to wait a while.

2. EMS

No matter what you do you are going to have to deal with selecting an ECU. This is going to be the most troublesome part of the whole project.

The choice depends on your budget and the type of fuel injection you want to do.

You can go from the relatively inexpensive CustomEFIS type of setup with GM parts using batch fire and wasted spark, all the way through to full sequential EFI with sequential ignition - Motec M600 (or somewhat cheaper Autronic SM4).

I'm going the second route because it means I can supercharge the EFI setup easily at the same time - but then I've lost my mind /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif. Of course I'm rebuilding the engine first to stop it blowing up when I hit the loud pedal. Either of the two aforementioned ECUs allow me to use a knock sensor to help with keeping it in one piece.

Once your ECU is sorted, the rest is plumbing and wiring. And money.

The cam trigger is probably the hardest thing if you want full sequential, but if you go look on Rick Pattens site (again) he has a neat setup using a cut down distributor. You can do similar with a Hall Trigger to get the sync pulse. The crank trigger is easy if you spend a little money - get a custom damper and have it notched for pickup.

Any decent ECU will provide the ability to fire either coil packs (sequential or wasted spark) or you can go COP for a real modern setup.

The only other thing is setup. Figure spending some time on the dyno (at $$$ ph) to get it running before you fine tune it. You can write a check for all this of course if it's too daunting.

Your target of 10k is either spot on or way low depending on what you want. Figure 7k for the 'best' Revington kit at your door, and another 3k to get it in and running. You get maps with it, so no aggro with the dyno.

Approx $4k gets you an installed tuned SM4 (with wiring harness). Add 2k+ more for the Motec.

Figure another $4-6k for all the other pieces you need (including manifold) plus any labor to install them.

If you need to rebuild your engine to handle the power, then you will possibly be spending a LOT. Carillo rods are bloody expensive. Forged pistons aren't much cheaper. Even line boring for cam bearings is pricier than you'd think.

Also if you want that much power then you had better budget for driveline upgrades - diff, gearbox, rear hubs at the least, suspension and brakes to do it right, and don't forget to strengthen the diff mounts while it's out...

OK, I'll stop now. It's not something you want to start lightly. It's not just a case of bolting a few things on and it becomes a supercar. That's probably why no-one has a kit.

One final thing - the V8 argument. You can get more power out with a V8. I seriously thought about converting, but then there are a lot more bodywork changes to do - most of which are beyond my capability (I'm a terrible welder). I figured finding someone I trusted to do it right - and with 300hp I'd want it done right - would be nigh on impossible at any sane pricepoint. This type of conversion is mostly wrenching and electronics, both of which I'm a lot more comfortable with. You also keep the block so as far as I'm concerned its still a 'real' TR6.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif