Drip, drip, drip... NEED HELP WITH FRONT OIL SEAL

[Gliderman8]

I just finished driving my TR6 for the second season since complete rebuild.
At the end of season one, I stopped the leaks in the diff and the brake MC.
However, I still have an annoying leak at the front of the engine and it looks like the drip is coming right behind the crankshaft pulley so I’ve decided get this leak stopped once and for all as one of my winter projects.
When I rebuilt the engine I did install a new timing cover oil seal but unfortunately this is where I suspect it is leaking from.
So here are my questions that I’m seeking help on…

1. Is it just a matter of removing the radiator, fan, crankshaft pulley and timing cover and install another new seal?
2. What about the sleeve that slides over the front of the crankshaft… the outer diameter of the sleeve is sealed by the timing cover oil seal but won’t it still weep oil through the inner diameter where it slides onto the crankshaft?
3. Do I have to seal the inner diameter of the sleeve with RTV or similar?

Any help/advice would be appreciated from you guys who have done this.
Is there any chance I can get it stopped? …after all, it is a Triumph

Thanks for your assistance guys.

 

[tomshobby]

This might help, before reassembly make sure the surface the seal lip rides on is smooth and not grooved. If it is not smooth it could tear the seal and if it is grooved it might not be able to contact the seal lip.
And when assembling first install the cover and leave the screws loose, then install the crankshaft spacer. (make sure there are no burs on the spacer especially the edge) Doing it this way the spacer will slide past the seal edge easier and not try to fold over or tear it. After the spacer is through the seal then tighten the cover screws.

Some RTV around the outside of the seal is OK but there should be no reason for any on the spacer. Just tightening the pulley will seal the spacer. Unless you have an electric fan and the end cap you got is not deep enough to tighten the pulley and spacer. PoolBoy can tell you what happens then.

 

[Gliderman8]

Thanks for the assembly tips Tom. No electric fan, just stock setup. I was concerned that oil could leak around the spacer inner diameter.
I will of course check the spacer for wear and if not smooth, I'll replace it. Thanks!
OK, Pool Boy... where are ya?

 

[poolboy]

I'm here. Yeah that was something. From what I found out, the nose of the TR6 crank can vary somewhat in length. It seems that they were cut to length with a bandsaw. That shouldn't create a problem with the stock set-up using the fan extension, but if the plastic crank driven fan is replaced with an electic fan one of the options is to use Rick Pattons fan eliminator kit.
Using it, a special washer with a pocket fits on the nose of the crank and the depth of the pocket should be adequate to allow the washer to bear against the damper as the bolt is tightened to 90 ft-lbs.
As luck would have it, either the nose of my crank was too long or the washer's pocket too shallow; regardless, there was not enough clamping pressure on the damper to hold it tight under engine torque because the pocket bottomed out on the nose of the crank beore the washer reached that point. Eventually the sprocket locating key milled away the slot in the damper causing it to become loose on the crankshaft.
Here's a picture of the damper and the keyway. Notice how cleanly the key enlarged the slot in the damper.
BTW, Rick Patton supplied me with a new kit that had a deeper pocket that would not bottom out on the nose of the crank before it could provide adequate clamping pressure on the damper.

 

[Gliderman8]

Hi Ken... Happy Holidays!
Since I'm sticking with the stock setup (for now) is there any other advice you can add to getting the leak stopped?

 

[poolboy]

Thank's Elliot and back at you.
That front sealing block is leak prone. Beside the obvious of having the wooden wedges cut perfectly flush, the tightening it is equally important.
The 2 screws at the bottom are installed loosely until you have lined up the front of the sealing block with the crankcase using a straight edge, then the screws can be tightened.
That makes sure that there is no tiny gap at the bottom of the timing gear's cover.
A healthy layer of Hylomar on the timing cover gasket. both sides, doesn't hurt either.
Oh yeah, those 2 little odd shaped gaskets on each end of the sealing block can use a goodly amount of Hylomar too.
I say Hylomar, but I like Permatex #2 Form-A-Gasket Sealant a lot, too.

 

[Gliderman8]

hummmm.... hadn't given much thought to the sealing block leaking, so I guess I will add that to my list as long as I'm in there anyway.

 

[mallard]

Wipe off all the oil around the leak, especially under the crank pulley. Go for a short drive and check under the pulley to see if there is any oil there. You will be able to see if there is a stream of oil coming down. If the sealing block is what's leaking the oil will not be under the the crank pulley. I had the same problem and had to replace the timing cover seal. I think the second seal was a Chicago Rawhide seal. TRF sometimes has two available seals but you may have to ask. If it's the block that is leaking I would go with the much better steal sealing block. The threads on the aluminum block strip out, and you can't torque them down. It's an easy job, but very time consuming.

 

[KVH]

If it's a leak from the timing cover seal, you should be able to verify without much trouble.

I ordered the "Moss" speedy sleeve, though you can order it yourself or find it at a number of parts houses.

Using a caliper you can determine the correct size. Two sizes seem very close, but the smaller one is the correct one. The sleeve cannot protrude beyond the shoulder of the crank pulley hub, not even beyond the tiny bevel at the end of the hub.

If you have a good timing cover seal and either a good pulley or one with a new speedy sleeve you should be rid of your leak.

Remember to follow the instructions on that speedy sleeve. Cut to the groove so you can peel off the excess after driving it home. I didn't follow the instr. and I had a heck of a time peeling the excess off. If you go this route, you'll see from the instructions what I mean.

Good luck.

 

[Gliderman8]

Thanks for all the advice guys.
This project won't start for a few weeks. I'll post updates as I get into it.

 

[Gliderman8]

I had the same problem and had to replace the timing cover seal. I think the second seal was a Chicago Rawhide seal. TRF sometimes has two available seals but you may have to ask.

Keith- Thanks for the "headsup" regarding the timing cover seal. I called one of the big three suppliers and they told me "it's a no-name brand that they get from overseas".
Did some further checking and found that Chicago Rawhide was taken over by SKF. Called some FLAPS and was quoted $20 - $22 for the same SKF number (19993).
Ended up ordering it from a local bearing supplier for $7.34.... same SKF number.
Not going to do anything about the sealing block until I get my eyes on it to see if it's the cause of the leak.

 

[mallard]

Good luck with the repair Elliot. But remember a leak free Triumph is very hard to achieve.

 

[Gliderman8]

:lol: :thumbsup:

 

[DNK]

My 6 doesn't leak a drop.
Guess it helps not to have oil in the block :wink:

 

[Gliderman8]

Sure you have a Triumph Don?
Seriously, I glad to hear that yours does not leak; that means it is possible!
The diff was leaking like crazy until I replaced the pinion seal. So I am hopeful. If I have to, I will go with the upgraded sealing block too.... one step at a time.

 

[DNK]

Elliot, just empty all the oil out. then it won't leak

 

[Gliderman8]

Hummmm reverse logic... I like it. Although I could just close my eyes and I won't see it leak... I'm just saying.

 

[SCguy]

Just came across a steel sealing block that I never installed on my TR6 if interested PM me.

 

[eschneider]

Tip 1 - if the crank pulley OD is scarred there is a ready-sleeve to fix it.

Tip 2 - the moss seal is much less substantial than the stock seal, but it does the job OK.

Tip 3 - Yes, double check the front sealing block and fix it if it's leaking. While you have the front mounting plate, water pump, and oil pan off - I would recommend replacing the felt strips on the rear sealing block. I use indian-head-shellac soaked strips of t-shirt, hammered into the groove. Just did one, and no leaks at the rear of the block anymore.....

Tip 4 - I had excellent luck using hylomar for the front sealing block "T" bits and the mounting plate gasket (joints likely to flex a bit). I used "right stuff" for everything else.

 

[Gliderman8]

Tip 1 - if the crank pulley OD is scarred there is a ready-sleeve to fix it.

Tip 2 - the moss seal is much less substantial than the stock seal, but it does the job OK.

Tip 3 - Yes, double check the front sealing block and fix it if it's leaking. While you have the front mounting plate, water pump, and oil pan off - I would recommend replacing the felt strips on the rear sealing block. I use indian-head-shellac soaked strips of t-shirt, hammered into the groove. Just did one, and no leaks at the rear of the block anymore.....

Tip 4 - I had excellent luck using hylomar for the front sealing block "T" bits and the mounting plate gasket (joints likely to flex a bit). I used "right stuff" for everything else.

Thanks for all of the helpful tips. I do know that there is a redi-sleeve that fits the oil sleeve just behind the crank pulley. Why not just replace the oil sleeve(the one with the chamfered leading edge) with a new one? The redi-sleeve costs about $50 and a new oil sleeve is less than $20... what am I missing?
I will probably end up doing the front sealing block at the same time.