Another Dealer 100M question

[MarshgrassA]

Another 100 M Dealer prepared car on E Bay has me asking again about the correct or legal way to advertise these cars. I assume since I have not called on it that when the words "dealer prepared" are used that the car could be fitted yesterday or many years ago and carry the engine tag as shown in the pictures.

 

[DerekJ]

I'm sure Reid will clarify but to me the only cars that can be called 100Ms are 100Ms. Therefore any BN1 with LeMans modifications by the dealer or otherwise should be referred to as a 100LeMans. Some people outside of the Healey world are either not going to know that or will just ignore it, so expect to see more ads describing a 'Dealer Prepared 100M.' Does the latest car on eBay actually have any proof it was dealer prepared? That in itself would be a first.

 

[bighealeysource]

Derek is correct, 100M Registry refers to any BN1 or BN2 with a LeMans kit as "LeMans Conversion". Bill Meade is in the process of two different classifications for LeMans Conversion 100's, those done 1970 or before and those done after 1970. Earlier ones done by Healey dealers or owners and some by DMH works. Very few of these have been registered or substantiated as such. The car in question appears to be one with recent LeMans mods done and should not carry the 100M designation. The ebay ad mentions 100M LeMans Registry certificate so the restorer went to the effort of getting it registered as one of the post 1970 modified cars. You get a different certificate and dash plaque with this classification and pictures of these two items on the ad's shutterfly link.
Regards,
Mike

 

[Healey 100]

Hey it must be a 100M. The official document from the 100M registry calls it a 100M "Le Mans" conversion so is it not what they say it is: a 100M? They do have a stamped disclaimer on the certificate saying it is not a "Factory Built 100M" but they still call it a 100M, in spite of current belief that only factory built 100M's should be called such. Personally, I think the 100M registry is treading on dangerous waters when it inserts itself as an official source to verify the history and provenance of any Healey 100M. They really don't have the resources or ability to confirm the identify any of these cars -- they rely entirely on information provided by the owner and factory records. No telling if that information is really correct. The fact is the legitimacy of provenance is always the joint responsibility of the owner and the buyer. Having a certificate of authenticity from the Healey registry is hardly conclusive. Yet, can you fault this seller from calling this car a 100M when the 100M registry issues an official paper indicating it is such? BTW it looks like a very well restored Healey 100, very nice color too! (guess what color mine is).

 

[bighealeysource]

I have to respectfully disagree with Bill about the 100M Registry "treading on dangerous waters" as the intention of the 100M Registry is to attempt to keep things straight as to what is a FACTORY 100M, register the LeMans modified cars and encourage owners to get a Heritage Certificate. Gerry Coker, Bic Healey, Roy Jackson Moore and John Wheatley are advisors to the Registry and I cannot think of more knowledgeable folks to have as advisors as they surely know more than anyone else about this particular model Healey. The increase in values of the 100M have made it ripe for "clones" to once again become an issue and knowing there is a centralized data base to check on a particular car benefits everyone. Bill relies on info provided by owners and now accompanying photos of the required bits that are unique to a 100M or LeMans modified cars so yes, he or one of the advisors do not personally check out each submittal. But this is surely better than any other way to do your due diligence if looking to purchase one or register one. If an owner has registered a car at the very least one has a great place to start the process. Plus, also a great source for questions and answers back and forth between members or simply to Bill Meade. I have never met Bill, only communicated via e-mails, but thankful he took it upon himself to start the 100M Registry back in 1995.
Regards,
Mike Lewis

 

[HEALEYJAG]

I emailed the owner asking him what documentation he has on the"dealer Le mans modifications"//..Was just curious...let you know what his response was if I get one.

Pete

100 Austin Healey Le mans modified initially by a guy in Pennsylvania and finished by me 5 years ago. (this is how I will now refer to my car to avoid confusion)

 

[judow]

I agree with Mike and sadly given other posts by poster Bill Sullivan, it would seem that he has an issue with Factory Certified 100M and the 100M Registry. He has a right to his opinion but that is simply his opinion and it appears to not be shared by the majority. Additionally it is my understanding that Bill Meade requires a copy of the BMHIT certificate, at least it was required for my Healey. That surely with other backup is proof enough. To say that the Registry is treading on dangerous ground is pure rubbish.

 

[Healey 100]

I have no problem with any of the Healey registries, they provide an important service to our community. I do object to a trend for the registries to act as authenticators, particularly of the 100M. Since they don't actually inspect the car, it would be easy to provide invalid information in exchange for a certificate that implies authenticity. The risk to the registry is that some buyer who accepts a registry certificate at face value who eventually finds his car is not really a 100M LeMans or "factory built 100M" could conceivably ask for damages from the seller and the registry. Not likely, since the registry makes if clear that their certificate is based on owner supplied information, but it still could happen. BTW I think the body of work about what is or is not a 100M is a fascinating and important part of Healey history and I salute those who do this research -- even though I take some of the conventional 100M wisdom with a grain of salt. These cars are, after all, Healey's built more than 50 years ago under production controls and records that are difficult to verify.

 

[DerekJ]

The Heritage certificate only 'guarantees' that a car with the stated chassis number was a 100M. It can not prove its the same car and not simply a replica of a scrapped car. If the 100M 'certification' is only based on 'owner supplied' information then in reality, it isn't worth a whole lot in terms of authentification.

 

[HEALEYJAG]

Well the response from the seller stating it was DEALER MODIFIED was based on the history (previous owners) of the car and that the hood, plates, carbs were all old rather than new repro.Pete

 

[MarshgrassA]

Pete,
At least he had some kind of answer!
I do expect to have a nice Healey in my garage before I am too old to crawl in and out of it.....but it won't be this one.

Cheers,
Irene

 

[MarshgrassA]

I talked to the owner of the Blue Healey with the Dealer LeMans kit. Very knowledgeable gentleman with a great car collection. I may have to talk to him again! That is a beautiful car.

 

[Editor_Reid]

.
The Hundreds fitted with all or part of the Le Mans Engine Modification Kit remain a minefield of outright fakes and cars misrepresented to one degree or another. It's a curse to try to value them, and they shouldn't be seen as a distinct variant. Rather, they are best conceived as falling somewhere along a continuum.

There are the 640 factory 100M models and there are the 100 models that were never fitted with the Le Mans Kit, and everything else is somewhere in between; somewhere on that continuum. To value or even define one, you have to discover how much of the Le Mans Kit is installed, how much of it is composed of original components and how much is reproduction/substitute items, who installed it and when, etc. And then you have to decide if it has any effect on value.

If a complete, original Kit was installed 50 years ago at a dealership, is that car any more valuable than one with an equally complete and original Kit installed yesterday at Tommy's British Car Care Center? If you perceive a difference in value, then you are agreeing that notional aspects have value - it's not the physical composition of the car; they are identical - and placing a value on notions such as that is tricky, to put it mildly.

Will the car that had the Kit installed yesterday gain value with time, becoming as valuable 50 years from now as the one that just celebrated its 50th anniversary of the installation of the Kit?

These questions are argumentative and the differences are notional. The term caveat emptor must have been coined for those considering the purchase of a Kit-equipped car.

 

[MarshgrassA]

Well said and as a novice collector I heed all warnings (at least I try to). My husband says he trusts my judgment but he knows I'd never buy without help from those I trust in the hobby.

.....and thanks to those of you who share your knowledge....

Cheers,
Irene