Another "100M" ?

[Bob_Spidell]

I know this has been hashed to death, but this one really bugs me:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/austin_healey/100m/1533959.html

I was looking for a good photo of a 100M in the color scheme of our car and sent this link to a friend. It was only after I sent the link that I saw 'dealer prepared' in the description. This car is blatantly advertised as a '100M' and it appears it isn't. Fooled me, and I generally can spot the frauds right away (the first clue was the expected sale price, about 2/3 of what a genuine factory M should go for in this condition). For a respected auction house to do this kinda chaps my hide.

Also, it appears to have BN1 front wings but I can't tell for sure (the swage/paint line goes to the top of the wheel opening).

 

[HealeyRick]

And yet it sold for $96,250 at Amelia: https://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1057658

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Below the 'estimated' price, but seems kind of high to me. I see the 'dealer prepared' was at least featured in the header more prominently--car's provenance may have been called into question by somebody.

 

[57_BN4]

How does one correctly sell a "Numbers-matching, dealer-prepared Le Mans spec car" if that advertisement is phony? Seemed a pretty legit description to me. Andy.

 

[LarryK]

It shows you have to be careful when buying from auctions. Technically, I do not think the auction houses really look into each manufactured car. It may be LeMans spec., but they mention the win as if this one was there. Again, if a real LeMans car, it would have race stickers and inspection tags to go with it as FIA really closely marks it's race cars. Without this proof there will be no vintage use in FIA racing.

 

[Editor_Reid]

I know this has been hashed to death...

I wouldn't say that. Whenever there are questions about the way a Healey is presented by a seller or consignor, I believe that those of us with reason to question the representation have an obligation to raise those questions.

This particular car was the subject of an email exchange between me, Randy Hicks (100 Registrar) and Bill Meade (100M Le Mans Registrar). I was also asked my opinion of this car by a major automotive magazine. To put it politely, I have several questions and reservations about this car and its description. The car is not in either registry, and it is mislabeled a "100M" which - if it is a "dealer-prepared Le Mans roadster" - it assuredly is not (a 100M).

Here is the list of my observations based on the photos and description on the auction company website:

There's much more to this case than an unsubstantiated claim that it has a dealer-installed Le Mans Kit.

First, any such claim is worthless and meaningless unless you have paperwork to back it up. Without a receipt or letter or something similar, it's a rumor at best, and an ethical consignor should never, in my opinion, make such a claim unless he has documentation to back it up.

Second, it is described as a 100M in the item description headline. This is incorrect of course. I believe that the consignor provides the item description, and if that is correct it is no fault of the auction company.

Third, the car has an "M” badge affixed to the grille badge. Those are correctly found only on factory 100Ms. Putting one on this car could be interpreted as misrepresentation. [Very interestingly, the close-up photo of the grille badge has since been deleted from the website.]

Fourth, the item description states, "two SU H4 carburetors," while a car with the Le Mans Kit should have H6 carburetors. This could be an innocent mistake, but if the consignor made that error in the item description he provided to the auction company, in my mind it calls into question his true knowledge of the Le Mans Kit. And if this car really has H4 carbs, it is missing a major component of the Le Mans Kit.

Fifth, the second paragraph of the lot description blurs the distinction between the Le Mans Kit and the 100M spec. The writer of that description is either ignorant or he has deliberately written it to make the reader believe that there is no difference between that car and a 100M. [I note that - very interestingly - the description on the website has since been changed to delete this section.]

Sixth, the description states that the kit converts "standard models to identical specifications [as a 100M]." Completely wrong. [I note that again - very interestingly - the description on the website has since been changed to delete this sentence.]

Seventh, the car has what is apparently a BN1 dashboard. Note the reversed position of the ignition switch and overdrive switch. The holes for those switches are different sizes, and there is a flat on one side of the ignition switch hole. Therefore I conclude that the dashboard is from a BN1.

Eighth, the break line of the black side-paint is not curved downward at the front, as it should be, yet the forward edge of the black paint meets the top of the front wheel opening pretty well. This means that the car may have BN1 fenders, and even if the fenders are correct BN2, the failure of the restorer to paint it in the correct pattern with the curved downward edge calls into question, in my opinion, his knowledge of these cars.

Ninth, and very, very strangely, the car has a BN1 shift knob on a BN2 transmission. Nice BN1 shift knobs are rare. I am never surprised to see a BN2 shift knob on a BN1 because proper BN1 shift knobs are so rare that sometimes you just have to use what you can find and put a BN2 shift knob on one, but I have never, ever, seen a BN1 shift knob on a BN2.

Tenth, the only elements that we can see of a Le Mans Kit are the cold air box, the plaque that goes on it, and the carbs and manifolds. The cold air box looks like a modern reproduction, although with the over-restored polishing it is hard to say for sure, but the plaque on the cold air box is certainly a recent reproduction. [The louvered bonnet and bonnet strap are not components of the Le Mans Kit, and the close-up photo of the plaque on the cold air box has since been removed from the website.]

Also, the lever is missing from the unrestored trafficator (turn signal switch). Good luck to the buyer to try to find one of those! [Very interestingly, the close-up photo of the trafficator has since been deleted from the website.]

Also, notice in the close-up photo of one of the chrome (incorrect) wire wheels that there is a red pinstripe separating the white and black two-tone.

Also, the rear bumper is noticeably crooked. To me, this calls into question the quality of the restoration and in my opinion it demonstrates poor attention to detail. [Very interestingly, the photo showing this has since been deleted from the website.]

Also, the lower flange or the rear shroud is not painted luster black, further calling into question the knowledge and/or attention to detail of the restorer.

Also, there is silver paint splattered over the gauge faces. What incredibly sloppy work and poor attention to detail. [Also very interesting, the close-up photos of the gauges where this is visible have been removed from the website since the auction.]

And all of this is just from looking at it online. Imagine what a first-hand inspection may reveal. As a starting point, it might be very interesting indeed to start cross-checking the body number, such as those stamped on the underside of the cockpit trim rails, to see if they match the body number plaque on the firewall.

I also recommend that anyone interested in this subject review the article I wrote on the subject in 2005: What is (and isn't) an Austin-Healey 100M?

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Re: Another phony '100M'

Also, the lever is missing from the unrestored trafficator (turn signal switch). Good luck to the buyer to try to find one of those! [Very interestingly, the close-up photo of the trafficator has since been deleted from the website.]
** I guess it's time to put my 100 turnsignal switch in my safe, LOL. The BJ8 glovebox locks have long ago been sold!

 

[bighealeysource]

Saw this dealer prepared or more correctly stated in my opinion, "restorer prepared" 100 LeMans at Amelia last month. Fortunately you did not have to register with RM to see the cars prior to going into the auction arena as otherwise would not have seen it in person. Looked nice but certainly not a # 1 Healey and do not recall it being promoted as a factory 100M with the small info placard on the car. But obviously at first glance the Hemmings ad certainly did just that. The "dealer prepared" was in the smaller print and would hope someone considering buying it would have read the description carefully plus do their homework as Reid detailed. Probably sold on the high side of the LeMans price range but considering the number of people attending the auction with more money than brains, no surprise. RM is one of the quality auction houses and although I did not hear the verbal description of the auctioneer when it came into the room, would think he did call it a "dealer prepared " car, not a factory 100M. As usual, "caveat emptor" applies here ! Thank goodness for people like Bill Meade and the 100M Registry and Reid for continuing to educate everyone on what is and what is not an actual 100M ! Still nice to see values continue to go up on all Healey's !!!
Regards,
Mike

 

[CanberraBJ8]

Just a thought guys - bit of a sidetrack in the tread. How much thickness does chroming add to an item? The reason I ask is to do with the above about the 100 turn signal leavers being so hard to find. I am a carver/sculptor/jeweller and do small lost wax casting - one offs and small runs. I have done quite a bit of small bronze casting. I issue with simple copying though is when you take a silicon mould of the original and then make a wax copy - and then use that to cast the bronze, you get a small reduction in overall size... I wonder if the chroming thickness will off-set this?

Explanation of lost wax casting here

 

[Editor_Reid]

Just a thought guys - bit of a sidetrack in the tread. How much thickness does chroming add to an item? The reason I ask is to do with the above about the 100 turn signal leavers being so hard to find. I am a carver/sculptor/jeweller and do small lost wax casting - one offs and small runs. I have done quite a bit of small bronze casting. I issue with simple copying though is when you take a silicon mould of the original and then make a wax copy - and then use that to cast the bronze, you get a small reduction in overall size... I wonder if the chroming thickness will off-set this?

The trafficator levers for the 100 are mostly not chromed (I say "mostly" because there are a couple of period photos showing the same chromed style as used later on the 100-Six and 3000, but those appear to be very rare exceptions only).

 

[GregW]

I know shrinkage is different from metal to metal and the thickness of the part being cast also has an effect on shrinkage. Plating thickness is all about the time the part is in the soup. I think you'd need to plate for a long time to recover the lost size due to shrinkage. Another problem with plating is you probably won't get an exactly even layer when you're going for a really thick coating.

 

[DerekJ]

Good post from Reid. I just read the ad and it is clear from the description the inference is that this car is one of cars equipped with the LeMans kit at the time of its purchase, by a dealer. There does not seem to be a scrap of evidence to back up this claim. I also raise the question that even if there was, is there any reason why such a car should be worth more than one equipped with a full LeMans kit by the owner in period? First thing the new owner should do is remove the chrome wheels.

 

[Editor_Reid]

First thing the new owner should do is remove the chrome wheels.

Followed closely by removing the red pinstriping that separates the white and black paint. In fact, come to think of it, maybe that's why the consignor continued the black paint straight ahead into the front wheel opening: it would have been too hard to pinstripe it if the black paint curved downward into the front wheel opening, as original. Pinstriping in a more or less straight line is much easier.

Valuing Le Mans Kit-equipped Hundreds is, in my opinion, the most difficult valuation to make of any big Healey model:

• How much of the Kit was installed? All or only some?
• Are all of the parts originals, or are there some reproductions and substitutions among them?
• Who installed it? Does it matter?
• When was it installed? Does it matter?

We throw around the term "Le Mans Kit" pretty easily, with many people assuming that any Hundred with a louvered bonnet has one. (Ironically, the louvered bonnet is not part of the Le Mans Kit at all, and neither is the bonnet strap. The full name of the kit is Le Mans Engine Modification Kit, and its components are restricted to engine mods only.)

To me, it is more interesting to find a car that has had the kit installed since the 1950s, and was perhaps even installed at the Donald Healey Motor Company (and has some documentation to back this up; rumors and previous owners' reports do not constitute evidence), but does it make the car more valuable? My answer is Yes, probably, but how much more valuable? Tough one!

My blue and white 100 (the car in my signature photo below) has pretty much the entire kit installed, and almost all of the components are originals, but I can't back that up with documentation, and the parts were installed in the 1990s, so how much does it add to the value of the car? I think it's highly problematic to put a figure on it.

By the way, I'm thinking seriously of removing the louvered bonnet - which is, by the way, from a long ago written-off factory 100M - with the original plain bonnet. So many Hundreds have louvered bonnets, and there are so many of them masquerading as factory 100Ms when they are not, that I just feel like avoiding making the misimpression that this car is a factory 100M when it isn't.

 

[GregW]

By the way, I'm thinking seriously of removing the louvered bonnet - which is, by the way, from a long ago written-off factory 100M - with the original plain bonnet. So many Hundreds have louvered bonnets, and there are so many of them masquerading as factory 100Ms when they are not, that I just feel like avoiding making the misimpression that this car is a factory 100M when it isn't.

Do it because you want to, not for that reason.

 

[Editor_Reid]

Do it because you want to, not for that reason.

That is the reason I want to :eagerness:

 

[judow]

Thanks Reid, wished I had as much knowledge as you. While I know Agatha, most of it is just like an old shoe - I know all about it but am hardpressed to verbalize it. What I did notice was the shift knob and then to me what was puzzling and realizing the photo was taken at ground angle was the height of the vehicle. It seemed to be so much higher than mine, i.e. ground clearance. I guess it could have a suspension system that is different than mine but what few M's I've seen do not ride as high as this one. Last comment would be that it is sad to see such dishonesty.

 

[DerekJ]

Reid, was a louvred bonnet ever available as an option on a 100, either on its own or as part of a LeMans kit? The unusual thing about factory 100Ms is that they actually appeared as a 'run out' model two years after the all the parts were available to anybody that wished to buy them. If anything it is the factory 100Ms that are copying the upgraded BN1s equipped with a LeMans kit. Its for this reason that I do not consider factory 100Ms to be worth the premium that is asked for them. They have, IMHO, been hyped up as being more than they really are. Obviously if people are prepared to pay that money then they are 'worth' it, however I suspect it is really investors that are buying them rather than enthusiasts.

 

[Healey 100]

Must concur with Derek J about the over hype of 100M's vs LeMans kits etc. Regarding the louvered bonnets, Goeff Healey did say clearly in his book that he believed louvered hoods were supplied on some 100's shipped to warmer climates. More intriguing is his mention of significant quantities of 100Ms built by the Healeys in Warwick that are not on the "factory built" registry -- because those 100M's had their bonnets shipped back to Jenson for louvering and no records were kept. They obviously are factory built 100M's too, but without a paper trail. it is hard to know for sure. Still, the 100M's, real or created, are an attractive setup, that louvered hood looks great on these cars and may even help cool the engine a bit. Not surprised that they command higher prices.

 

[Editor_Reid]

was a louvred bonnet ever available as an option on a 100, either on its own or as part of a LeMans kit? The unusual thing about factory 100Ms is that they actually appeared as a 'run out' model two years after the all the parts were available to anybody that wished to buy them.

The louvered bonnet was never part of the Le Mans Kit. The Le Mans Kit consisted of engine mods only.

There was a separate Austin part number for the louvered bonnet, but that appears in one of the latter editions of the Parts List for the 100 - a publication that only a very, very small number of owners would have had - and so while it is possible that an owner could have ordered a louvered bonnet, I think that it would have been very, very, very rare.

If anything it is the factory 100Ms that are copying the upgraded BN1s equipped with a LeMans kit. Its for this reason that I do not consider factory 100Ms to be worth the premium that is asked for them. They have, IMHO, been hyped up as being more than they really are. Obviously if people are prepared to pay that money then they are 'worth' it, however I suspect it is really investors that are buying them rather than enthusiasts.

The 100M was more of an "evolution" of the Le Mans Kit than a "copy." The 100M included several things that were not part of the Le Mans Kit, and it was offered, from new, as a separate model with a separate name from the standard 100. The market has spoken and it values these special, rare models far above the standard 100. You're free to disagree that they should be worth much more, but that doesn't change the market. In fact of reality, they command prices more than twice that of an equivalent standard 100.

 

[Editor_Reid]

Must concur with Derek J about the over hype of 100M's vs LeMans kits etc. Regarding the louvered bonnets, Goeff Healey did say clearly in his book that he believed louvered hoods were supplied on some 100's shipped to warmer climates.

Yes, but we have yet to find one. There are exactly no such cars in the 100 Registry or the 100M Le Mans Registry. So if there really were any, it is so few and so rare that it's not worth worrying about.

More intriguing is his mention of significant quantities of 100Ms built by the Healeys in Warwick that are not on the "factory built" registry -- because those 100M's had their bonnets shipped back to Jensen for louvering and no records were kept. They obviously are factory built 100M's too, but without a paper trail. it is hard to know for sure. Still, the 100M's, real or created, are an attractive setup, that louvered hood looks great on these cars and may even help cool the engine a bit. Not surprised that they command higher prices.

What I find interesting is how very extremely few 100s in the 100M Le Mans Registry fall into this category of cars converted at the Donald Healey Motor Company before the introduction of the 100M as a separate model. It's a tiny handful numbers-wise, while the number of factory 100M models registered is something like 190 of the original 640. I don't think that anyone doubts that some cars were converted at the Donald Healey Motor Company and sold new with the Le Mans Kit already installed before the introduction of the 100M model, but (a) there were, as near as we can tell from the number that have surfaced, very few, and (b) they still aren't 100M models since they were converted before there was a 100M model designation and standard specification. In my opinion they constitute a gray area between the 640 and the cars that received the Le Mans mods after being sold new as standard models and then retrofitted with the Le Mans Kit.