• Hey Guest!
    British Car Forum has been supporting enthusiasts for over 25 years by providing a great place to share our love for British cars. You can support our efforts by upgrading your membership for less than the dues of most car clubs. There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Upgraded members don't see this banner, nor will you see the Google ads that appear on the site.)
Tips
Tips

Wiring Harness Confusion

Share this page

angelfj1

angelfj1

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Moss USA lists 2 wiring harnesses for the TR3-3A from TS18913 thru TR3A TS60000, which is the production period for my car (TS 58476 LO).

1. MAIN HARNESS, lacquer braid

or

2. MAIN HARNESS, cloth bound

Can someone tell me which of the 2 harnesses is correct? The lacquer braid is a 40 percent premium.

Thanks in advance.
 
Mine (TS 27489 LO) is and always was black woven or braided fabric covered. For the TR3A I finished last year (TS 81551 L), it had the same black braided fabric covering when I took it all apart and I replaced it with the same.
 
I'm not absolutely certain, but I believe the "lacquer braid" refers to the insulation on the individual wires, rather than the outside covering. I was just reading in Piggott recently that there were two different types of harness used, apparently at random. He theorized that the factory used two different suppliers, but apparently had no documentation to that effect. And TS39781LO has the remains of some kind of cloth covering on the individual wires while other pre-60K TRs I've owned did not. So, I am guessing that is the distinction.

As Don says (and the TRA judging manual agrees), the outer covering was always black braid/cloth. The judging manual implies that pre-60K cars always had the lacquer braid on the wires, but that does not agree with my observations.
 
One problem I think I've seen with the lacquer braid is that over time the colors become very hard to distinguish.

I went with door #2 -- in which the individual wires are insulated with the vinyl(?) typical of modern wires. Those are then (as Randall notes) enclosed in black cloth.

The other thing you may find is that your pre-60K car used screw connectors in many places where the later looms used Lucar connectors (i.e. spade terminals). Over the years several components on my car were replaced with parts using the Lucar connectors, leaving me with the choice of replacing the connector on the harness or sourcing a part with screw connectors.
 
Aloha,

Here are some definitions from the British Wiring website.

In the harness listing sheets, Wire refers to the individual wires in the harness and Wrap refers to the outer covering of the harness. For example PB in a listing sheet refers to PVC wire and a Braided outer wrap. Some harnesses are made with a mixture of braided and PVC wire reflecting the original style (see PB B below).

The Wire in a harness will be either Braided (early cars) or PVC (later cars). The braided wire in our harnesses starts with PVC insulated wire which is then braided and lacquered to look like the original. Thus braided wire is more expensive than PVC. Many harnesses are available in both types of wire. The original style is listed first.

If the Wrap is listed as B then the black braid may have one or more colored stripes in the fabric for easier identification as per original factory production. Later cars had harnesses wrapped with PVC tape, usually blue or black. Braid outer wrap is more expensive than PVC tape wrap. Many harnesses are available in both types of outer wrap. The original style is listed first.

and a link to the website

https://www.britishwiring.com/Hinfo.htm

which shows examples of their various definitions.

This information matches the earlier responses.
 
Frank,

I'd buy from British Wiring...it's even a PA company now. They have had a stellar reputation for years...
 
Geo Hahn said:
One problem I think I've seen with the lacquer braid is that over time the colors become very hard to distinguish.
Click to expand...
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gifNone of the braid colors are still visible on TS39781LO, except where they were covered tightly. Even the original OD harness (which had braid on the wires but a loose PVC-like outer covering) is faded beyond recognition.

Which explains why I've learned over the years to pretty much ignore the colors, and buzz out the required wiring whenever I have it apart. Easier even than tagging the wires, IMO.
 
I think TR3driver is right about the braided wires vs. the vinyl showing up whenever they felt like it. Years ago, I had a small mouth TR3 that had the dreaded cloth covered wires. I don't remember the VIN. The car I'm restoring now is a fairly early TR3A...TS23677L, and it's wiring harness has individual wires that are vinyl coated. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazyeyes.gif Just another conundrum to deal with.
 
This appears to be a no-brainer. Cloth covered outer jacket and PVC insulated individual wires. Thanks to all for the great advice. BTW, I concur with all of the positive comments regarding British Wiring, which is now part of the "Triumph Rescue" family. Matt Bates the owner of these businesses has agreed to finish my TR-3A, the body shell of which is now finally finished after 6 years and 9 months. I'm about to post some recent photos. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
I think what is more important here is the connectors on the loom. The earlier cars used bullets or screws, while the later ones used spades. I thought I would take advantage of a cheap offer and fit a later harness into the early TR3A I had - false economy. It took me days to cut off the spades and solder on the correct connectors.
 
Nick: Did your decision have anything to do with the fact that you're a Scot? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
Hi there Frank,

Sometimes we Scots make blunders as a result of our
quest for being ever so thrifty.

Nick was in reality quite wasteful with his time by
attempting to be overly thrifty with his coins. Therefore
Nick has brought shame upon himself and will get no
wee dram tonight. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/nonono.gif

On a positive note, you will find very few of us Scots
living in the Poor House or rotting in Debtor's Prison.

Dale
 
I'm not entirely sure. I have always been a Scot, so I don't know any better!
Dale, the saving was enough for a GOOD bottle of malt!
 
Back
Top