Why positive ground?

[TomFromStLouis]

We had a little gathering of Healeys this past weekend and the conversation turned to issues electrical. Imagine.

Anyway, I wondered aloud why British cars had positive ground electrical stuff. The reasonable answer was that they used what was around, but that sort of begs the question, how did it start? I realize we could ask the same things about negative ground and that standards do not happen automatically. Did electricity evolve differently in England? Volta and Davies played with what we now call batteries ~100 years before the first Healey, so I kind of thought some of these things might have become settled.

Anyone want to fill the history a bit? For example, if DMH used positive ground because Austin did, and they did because, I don't know, the military in WW2 did, how did it get this way? Anyone know?

 

[zblu]

why left hand drive?

 

[66healey]

Because electricity actually flows from negative to positive. Electricity is the flow of electrons from one atom to another. Electrons are negatively charged and will always try to flow to a more positive potential, so the electrons in your charging system are actually flowing from ground to the positive battery terminal. So from a engineering standpoint it makes sense.

 

[Keoke]

. Electrons are negatively charged and will always try to flow to a more positive potential, so the electrons in your charging system are actually flowing from ground to the positive battery terminal. So from a engineering standpoint it makes sense. Well how did Lucas get them to turn around???

Also what chu going to do about them fellas that talk
about current flow.---Keoke--- :laugh:

 

[GregW]

Did electricity evolve differently in England?

I think here in the US, cars were wired up the same in the early days. Though I'm not positive. :wink:

 

[Robert560]

I found this in the AACA forums... very interesting...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]
Just as in North America, most of the British cars up through the 1950's were positive ground, although 12-volt was more common. And, just as in North America, Britain switched to negative ground.

To show how things changed over the years :

1930 : positive ground -
Auburn, Cadillac, Chrysler, DeSoto 8, Dodge, Erskine, Ford, Graham, Hupmobile, LaSalle, Nash (except 6-450), Packard, Studebaker, Willys, Willys-Knight

1930 : negative ground -
Buick, Chevrolet, DeSoto 6 (switched to positive 1931), Durant, Essex, Hudson (switched to positive 1934), Marquette, Nash (6-450), Oakland, Oldsmobile, Plymouth (switched to positive in 1931), Pontiac, Reo

1950 : positive ground -
Chrysler, Crosley, DeSoto, Dodge, Ford, Frazer, Hudson, Kaiser, Lincoln, Mercury, Meteor, Monarch, Nash, Packard, Plymouth, Studebaker, Plymouth
British - Austin, Ford, Hillman, Humber, Jaguar, MG, Morris, Riley, Rover, Standard, Sunbeam-Talbot, Triumph, Vauxhall

1950 : negative ground -
Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Willys

1965 : positive ground -
Austin, Datsun, Envoy, Ford (GB), Hillman, Humber, Jaguar, MG, Morris, Riley, Rover, Singer, Sunbeam, Triumph, Vauxhall

1965 : negative ground -
Acadian, BMW, Buick, Cadillac, Checker, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Citroen, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, Ford (German), Honda, Isuzu, Imperial, Lincoln, Mercedes-Benz, Mercury, Meteor, NSU, Oldsmobile, Opel, Peugeot, Plymouth, Pontiac, Porsche, Rambler, Renault, Simca, Skoda, Studebaker, Toyota, Valiant, Volkswagen, Volvo

The last of the positive ground cars switched to negative -
Austin - started switch in 1971
Datsun - 1966
Envoy - 1967
Ford (GB) - 1967
Hillman - 1966
Humber - 1966
Jaguar - 1967 to 1969
MG - 1969
Morris - dropped
Riley - dropped
Rover - 1969
Singer - 1966
Sunbeam - 1966
Triumph - 1967
Vauxhall - 1967

Bill
Vancouver, BC
[/QUOTE]

 

[Keoke]

Well blame it on ole Benjamin Franklin, he had the
polarities the wrong way around from the beginning.

Consequently:

By The time the true direction of electron flow was discovered, the nomenclature of "positive" and "negative" had already been so well established in the scientific community that no effort was made to change it.However, calling electrons "positive" would make more sense in referring to "excess" charge. But you see, the terms "positive" and "negative" are human inventions, and as such have no absolute meaning beyond that.---Fwiw--Keoke- :laugh:

 

[Deleted member 8987]

And, if you notice, less battery cable/terminal maintenance is required for positive ground.

 

[TomFromStLouis]

why left hand drive?

For the same reason you always mount a horse from the left? Unless you do one of those leaping over-the-butt mounts....

If the world were rational, it would be men who ride side saddle.

 

[tahoe healey]

I remember reading that pos ground lead to more body corrosion and therefore one of the reasons the manufacturers changed to neg ground.

 

[HealeyRick]

I think it was because the boffins at Abingdon enjoyed a good joke on the Yanks and wanted to see the sparks fly when we hooked up a pair of jumper cables incorrectly. Also, I think driving on the left had something to do with the way the Roman legions passed each other while marching around Hadrian's wall and that men walk on the outside of the sidewalk because that's where garbage landed when thrown out the window. Then again, I could be confused.

 

[Keoke]

I remember reading that pos ground lead to more body corrosion and therefore one of the reasons the manufacturers changed to neg ground.

Irish whispers TH---Keoke :laugh:

 

[Roger]

Early Austins were negative ground. They changed some time in the thirties - '34 maybe.
Most traffic flowed on the left, in most places, till Napoleon changed things.

 

[andybj8]

Cars first were driven on the left following on from horses being riden on the left hand side of a track, this being most people are right handed, so you could draw your sword to defend yourself.

I believe the french started driving on the right (left hand drive) for the same reason they changed to yellow headlights (they like to be different and know who the foreigners are (apologoies to any french members :crazy: The British colonies staying on the left of the road.

cheers Andy

 

[PAUL161]

There is nothing wrong with a positive ground system. In fact it's more efficient electronically speaking. I grew up in a Ford family and all Fords back then were positive ground. To me, it was normal. It's just that today, the manufactures of electronic equipment have used the negative ground system for quite a while as most cars since the late 60s use it. A lot of the younger car people grew up thinking the negative ground system was all there is, have found the positive system confusing as most electronics today won't work with them. I'd rather wire in a negative ground terminal block or convert a radio, or whatever, than the whole cars system. But, that's just me. Cheers,

 

[jsfbond]

So with the high demands on electrical systems nowadays, is there reason to go positive on the ground?

 

[Keoke]

So with the high demands on electrical systems nowadays, is there reason to go positive on the ground?

NO!!-----Keoke

 

[Ed_K]

This post and a nickle may get you 5 cents....

.. Electricity means two different things to two different
categories of people;

1.. Physicists and Scientists- Are concerned with electrical
" force " or potential differences in energy. They
describe electrical force in terms of hole flow or energy
flow. This way of looking at electrical energy is exactly
backwards from looking at electron flow or the old
" water in a pipe " analogy.

2.. Electrical engineers, technicians, most other types of
normal, non-Einstein folks, old British car owners, etc...
All are concerned with the flow of electrons which is
compared to water flowing through a pipe.

If the classic scientist types explain electricity, they will tell you it flows from positive to negative because they are talking about the " force ". All the rest of us will argue and say that the electrons flow from negative to positive.

So if the very first top expert at a generator company in the good old days was a scientist. He would probably pick + ground. If he was more of an electrical engineer he may pick - ground.

But I don't really know for certain about the choice of the ground. The first part about the scientist vs electrical engineer is true.

Ed