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What car to buy?

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malexalex

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As a novice to the wonderful world of minis, I must turn to the experts for advice... I am looking for a mini, hopefully a cooper or cooper s and I'm not really sure what year/set up is best in respect to ease of maintaining, running, and finding. Any advice on what to look for or avoid would be very helpful! Thanks,

Alex
 
Purchase the best you can possibly afford.

There are many S clones so be VERY careful when buying one. Make sure you know what you're buying and insist on provenance beyond the vin plate! Take someone that has Mini experience and can identify the detail beyond the second gas tank and 120 MPH speedo, because there are good fakes.

Good luck!
 
The most important two bits of advice I've received about the purchase of any vintage Brit car:

1) Purchase the best example your budget will allow (i.e., one that some other poor fellow has spent FAR too much money on);

2) If you are not techically skilled in auto repair/mechanics, with adequate tools and a garage, increase your restoration budget dramatically.

To this, I humbly add to actually create a budget for your restoration efforts, and stick to it. I have never done this, but it sure seems like a good idea.

Best of luck to you, please let us know how it goes, and post photos!
 
I don't wish to contradict anyone above but I'd like to approach this from a different angle.

True Coopers and Cooper-S models disappeared from the scene by about 1971 when the license agreement between John Cooper and BMC/BL ran out. So, a true Cooper or Cooper-S will fall into about a 10 year period before then. If these cars are well sorted they go for anywhere from $8-20k, with most (largely original with matching numbers) Cooper-S cars being somewhere around $15k, Cooper models being a couple of thousand less. Do you really want to spend that kind of money?

As mentioned, there are a LOT of clones out there. My feeling is a clone based on an early chassis will offer the same driving experience as a "true" car and typically cost thousands less. My question to you is, are you interested in a piece of history, or an experience? The experience can cost a lot less.

That said, you're faced with performance questions. The 998 engines can run all day and night and are largely bullet proof. The larger 1275 engines are stronger but require a little more attention. The larger, 7.5" disk brakes of the -S are generally better at stopping than the smaller 7" Cooper brakes. Standard Minis have drums at all four corners... but the 7" disks of the Cooper aren't much better.

I prefer "dry suspension cars". The wet suspensions started appearing at the end of 1964 and I believe they were used through the balance of Cooper-S production. If the wet suspension components are in good shape there's nothing wrong with them, however some parts for them are NLA so if you go with a wet car make sure it's in good shape. Over the years, many "wet" cars have been converted to "dry".

Above all else, regardless if you go for a clone or the a true Cooper/Cooper-S, make sure the body is as sound as possible. Most mechanical bits are easily bought new or used. HOWEVER, like any other car, bodywork and body repairs get expensive quickly. Sills rot out, the rear suspension subframe rots away, the boot floor can disappear... buy the best body you can find. You can always sort out the mechanicals.

BTW, the Mk3 cars (after 1969) were the first with roll up windows. Some feel the sliding windows are more classic. I can tell you they also give less ventilation. A Mk3 car will be a little more comfortable, however, Cooper/Cooper-S cars with roll ups will be few and far between (excluding the occasional Oz or NZ car). Also BTW, twin tanks and an oil cooler were options on Cooper-S models prior to 1966. Don't presume that a pre-1966 Cooper-S is a clone if it doesn't have those two items.
 
Buy some Mini books and read, read, read. If you are after a real Cooper get

Original Mini Cooper and Cooper S (Original Series) by John Parnell (Paperback - May 20, 2002)

A super book.

I have a real 1967 Cooper S and it a a lot of fun to drive.

Older cars are more difficult (expensive) to get parts though.

Bruce
 
Doug

Well said, AND I agreee with every word!
 
Alex, be aware that a genuine Cooper or S commands a premium. If you're just wanting the Mini experience, it's worth considering either a clone or a more recent Mini. A Mini can be LEGALLY imported into Canada if it is at least 15 years old (25 years for USA), so you can get a LEGAL Mini as new as a 1992 that has been brought over. I've actually got 3 that I brought over 2 years ago A '79, '89 & '90. Not Coopers but 1275cc, 8.4" discs, 4-pot calipers, big wheels & tires. I dare say that 99% of people who have ever heard of the original Cooper wouldn't know the difference.
 
The only difference is if you're tied up in the numbers matching game. Same as a difference between a factory 1970 Chevelle 396 SS or a clone.

I've got 3 Minis I bought in the UK. All 3 have the 1275cc engine, 8.4" disks up front, 13" alloys and Hi-Lo's. I'm confident that any of them could run circles around a standard Cooper and probably the Cooper S as well. But they were cheaper (a lot) than a "real" Cooper would have been.
 
regularman said:
Seems like everyone here in the states is hung up on calling all minis "coopers" wether old or new. All minis were not coopers the same as all Mustangs were not shelbys.
Click to expand...

Very true. However, many people, if they've even heard of a Mini, only know of the Mini Cooper. And of course it doesn't help that the new MINI is only sold here as the Cooper or Cooper S versions. I've given up trying to explain that mine are NOT Mini Coopers. Even the Clubman Estate! Whatever makes them happy!
 
I did not know that all the new ones were sold as coopers or the cooper S. Maybe this explains why the original MSRP on the miniusa site was suposed to be 17,500 when they came out but ended up being over 20,000.
 
That would be cool to have one of the new minis, but I would not know hot to work on them. I am still really shocked at how much minis go for over here(I mean the Austins). I worked on bunches of them when I lived in England and many of them that we hauled off to the bone yard could have been fixed up, but they were everywhere and cheap so we junked them. I would like to get another one but I am not gonna pay the prices that people are wanting for them. I'll just stick with my midget for now and keep my eyes open. Just be thankful that they didn't stick a spitfire engine in the mini.
 
I haven't kept up with people much over there. One guy I get a Christmas card from every year and thats about it. I would have loved to have bought a new mini and brought it home but they would only allow cars made 1967 and before to be brought home.
 
The way the rules are set up is that you can legally import a car as long as it's 25 years old. Then there's no need to make it comply with EPA or DOT regulation/requirements. Having said that, I'd guess that at least half the Minis being sold on Ebay are bogus, having had their VIN plates swapped with a scrap car 25+ years old. So you'll see them with multipoint fuel injection, airbags, etc. Total scam and not the sort of thing I'd want to get involved with.
 
I echo what dklawson has to say. I have a 1971 Mini Cooper replica. And I am not hung up because it isn't a real Cooper S.

It looks like a Mini Cooper S with 10" wheels on Yokohama rubber, 7.5" disc brakes, red coachwork, with a white roof, but is equipped with a later A+ engine from a Metro, and bored out to 1380cc.

It's got a roll cage, bucket seats, and race harnesses because it was built for rallying.

Thing is, I would never refer to it as a Cooper, because it doesn't have that car's provenance, but does it really matter? It does everything the Mini-Cooper S did - in fact its performance is probably a sight better than the fabled S - and was built to inherit much of the S' features with the exception of Hydrolastic suspension, the close-ratio tranmission, interior trim, and twin carburettors.

The point is that you might think that the Cooper S is the ultimate Mini, but you will pay a premium for the name, as we do here in the UK. Whereas you could get yourself a car that looks like a Cooper, goes like a Cooper, and smells like a Cooper, by mixing and matching readily-available bits, and even if it doesn't say Cooper S on the boot (trunk?)lid it will give much the same kind of driving experience. And it won't be as expensive.

That's because even though the Cooper S was a specialised piece of kit back in the mid-to-early Sixties, much of that experience was fed back into later BMC/BL front drivers, most notably the adoption of the bigger 1275cc engine.

Admittedly, the 'mass-produced' 1275cc engine was not as nicely assembled from very high quality components as the relatively-low volume S unit, but it was still reliable - by Mini standards - still susceptible to the same kind of tuning methods as the S, and much more plentiful.

Hydrolastic suspension was an interesting concept and had huge development potential, but most Mini enthusiasts prefer the simplicity of the 'rubber cone' suspension, even if it is comparatively stiff-riding. Havng said that, a stiff ride is something you will have to put up with in any Mini.

Actually, there is a half-way house between the relatively pliant ride of a Hydrolastic Mini, and the harshness of the standard rubber cones: Dr Moulton's Smootharide rubber springs. Dr Moulton originated both types of Mini suspension, but after Hydrolastic was axed by British Leyland on cost grounds, he decided to turn his attention back to the rubber springs that he only ever developed as a stop-gap measure. In the mid-Seventies he designed a better riding 'rubber' suspension but this was never adopted on production cars. Smootharide was, however, made available as a kit and it is still available. Check out https://www.minisport.com

I have these springs on my car, and although it will never match a Lincoln for ride comfort, you can actually feel the suspension absorbing bumps now and again. And that's not something you can say of the standard 'cones.'

So, by all means covet a Cooper S, but don't think it's the be all and end all. Any Mini can be adapted to do everything
the S did, but a good replica will cost you less.
 
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