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Russ Austin
Jedi Warrior
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I'm getting ready to replace my water pump and wanted to see if anyone had any tips or commints on removing and replaceing the water pump.
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Water Pump Tips needed !
- Thread starter Russ Austin
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TR4nut
Yoda
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Russ-
I recently replaced the water pump on my TR4 and it is a pretty straight forward operation. Some things to watch for that caught me: If you buy a pump without the pulley, its a good idea to make sure you can pull yours off first, otherwise you can easily buy one with the pulley already attached. If you do buy a pump with a pulley preinstalled you will also likely need to replace one of the attachment bolts with a stud instead - Moss has these. A gasket, some sealer, tighten three nuts and the jobs done.
If you are worried about overheating, some people like the uprated 6 blade pump sold at www.britishframeandengine.com. It's pricey at $140 - I opted for a replacement from BP Northwest and have been happy. I just noticed Moss also has a 6 bladed one for slightly less.
Regards,
Randy
I recently replaced the water pump on my TR4 and it is a pretty straight forward operation. Some things to watch for that caught me: If you buy a pump without the pulley, its a good idea to make sure you can pull yours off first, otherwise you can easily buy one with the pulley already attached. If you do buy a pump with a pulley preinstalled you will also likely need to replace one of the attachment bolts with a stud instead - Moss has these. A gasket, some sealer, tighten three nuts and the jobs done.
If you are worried about overheating, some people like the uprated 6 blade pump sold at www.britishframeandengine.com. It's pricey at $140 - I opted for a replacement from BP Northwest and have been happy. I just noticed Moss also has a 6 bladed one for slightly less.
Regards,
Randy
Don Elliott
Obi Wan
Offline
If you are concerned about originality, make sure that the pump you buy has a grease fitting so you don't lose points in a concours show. When I bought a new one in 1987, it came without a grease fitting as it had a sealed bearing. So before I installed it, I drilled and tapped a hole where the grease fitting was located on the old pump and "voila" I had a "correct" pump.
BTW, these pumps all have mild steel shafts. The shafts rust out and leak if you only use water. So use a 50/50 mix of antifreeze/water. I also noticed that this new pump had a smaller cast iron impeller compared to the bronze one in the original pump. So I turned a new shaft out of stainless steel and used the original impeller. I didn't want a smaller impeller to cause me overheating problems. I've driven 87,000 miles with this pump on the TR since then with no problems.
Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthreads/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1919/ppuser/4127
BTW, these pumps all have mild steel shafts. The shafts rust out and leak if you only use water. So use a 50/50 mix of antifreeze/water. I also noticed that this new pump had a smaller cast iron impeller compared to the bronze one in the original pump. So I turned a new shaft out of stainless steel and used the original impeller. I didn't want a smaller impeller to cause me overheating problems. I've driven 87,000 miles with this pump on the TR since then with no problems.
Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthreads/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1919/ppuser/4127
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Hi,
I'm one of the people who like the 6-bladed pump from BF&E. It's about the best-made replacement pump available. The blades are curved and shaped, too, to help prevent cavitation at higher rpms. And, it doesn't have pulley clearance issues like some of the more widely available pumps.
Speaking of which, don't be surprised if the pulley rubs a little on the standard pump, if that's what you use. On many modern replacement pumps, often a little grinding on the pump body extension is needed to prevent that slight contact with the inside edge of the pulley (the BF&E pumps are carefully machined to prevent this problem).
You'll find that the nut (or nuts if two studs are installed) behind the pulley can only be plain nuts and there usually isn't enough room for a locking washer under it (or a Nylok, unless you use the low profile variety, which can be hard to find). If you have to use a standard nut without a locking washer, some Locktite is recommended to keep the nut from shaking loose. This will most likely mean the entire stud will come out the next time the water pump is removed. That's okay, but you'll have to wait to fully disassemble after the entire pump is off the engine, since the stud with nut still on will be trapped behind the pulley.
Another small thing, if you find yourself re-installing the stud (or studs if using two). I suggest a little Locktite Thread Sealer on the threads into the block. If memory serves, both those threaded holes go all the way through the wall of the block and are open to the water jacket on the inside. The Thread Sealer not only helps prevent the stud from backing out, it also seals up the threads against coolant and helps prevent them from rusting and seizing in place.
Regarding the pulley, if you find you need to remove it for any reason and it's stuck on the shaft (i.e. can't just be removed by hand or with a couple light hammer taps) be very careful about it. Don't hammer hard on the edge of the pulley or it will break. The standard puller which has short tabs that hook over edge just won't do either. That will also very likely break the edge of the original style cast metal pulley. You need a puller that spreads the force over a wide area of the back of the pulley, which might need to be specially fabricated.
Some replacement water pumps have non-removeable pulleys, as Randy mentioned. (This is the type that requires one of the original bolts be replaced with a stud, since there is no way to fit a bolt into the hole.) If there is no nut on the very nose of the pulley, it's the non-removeable, pressed-on type. Don't even try to remove that type pump's pulley since it requires a special setup in a press and should be exchanged with the pulley still installed.
Original-style pumps and older replacements had a ceramic seal that required a short dry run to seat it properly. The process is really simple, just *don't* top up the coolant right away after the pump, pulley and belt have all be installed. Run the engine with coolant low, below the level of the pump, for 30 to 60 seconds. That way the seal has a chance to seat. If this is not done, this type seal will nearly always leak a little bit.
*However*, most modern pumps have a different type of seal that doesn't require bedding in like this and shouldn't be run dry. So, be sure to ask whoever supplies your water pump before finishing the installation, if it's not covered in any directions.
Most pumps today do have permenently lubricated bearings , so don't have the drilling or zerk installed for that purpose like the original pumps did. However, most modern replacement pumps *do* have a flat spot in the casting where the original zerk was installed. I've heard of folks who were looking for maximum originality using some epoxy to glue a fake grease zerk onto the side of the pump. Hey, if originality is what turns your crank, why not!
If you want to spend more money and go for a maximum performance setup, there are aluminum pulleys and aluminum pump housing castings available. Both are for weight savings, but the latter is said to help cooling a little, since alu transfers heat better than the old cast metal housing. I don't imagine it's a huge difference in this case, however. The alu pulleys are available in both wide and narrow belt varieties, depending on what you are using on your engine.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
I'm one of the people who like the 6-bladed pump from BF&E. It's about the best-made replacement pump available. The blades are curved and shaped, too, to help prevent cavitation at higher rpms. And, it doesn't have pulley clearance issues like some of the more widely available pumps.
Speaking of which, don't be surprised if the pulley rubs a little on the standard pump, if that's what you use. On many modern replacement pumps, often a little grinding on the pump body extension is needed to prevent that slight contact with the inside edge of the pulley (the BF&E pumps are carefully machined to prevent this problem).
You'll find that the nut (or nuts if two studs are installed) behind the pulley can only be plain nuts and there usually isn't enough room for a locking washer under it (or a Nylok, unless you use the low profile variety, which can be hard to find). If you have to use a standard nut without a locking washer, some Locktite is recommended to keep the nut from shaking loose. This will most likely mean the entire stud will come out the next time the water pump is removed. That's okay, but you'll have to wait to fully disassemble after the entire pump is off the engine, since the stud with nut still on will be trapped behind the pulley.
Another small thing, if you find yourself re-installing the stud (or studs if using two). I suggest a little Locktite Thread Sealer on the threads into the block. If memory serves, both those threaded holes go all the way through the wall of the block and are open to the water jacket on the inside. The Thread Sealer not only helps prevent the stud from backing out, it also seals up the threads against coolant and helps prevent them from rusting and seizing in place.
Regarding the pulley, if you find you need to remove it for any reason and it's stuck on the shaft (i.e. can't just be removed by hand or with a couple light hammer taps) be very careful about it. Don't hammer hard on the edge of the pulley or it will break. The standard puller which has short tabs that hook over edge just won't do either. That will also very likely break the edge of the original style cast metal pulley. You need a puller that spreads the force over a wide area of the back of the pulley, which might need to be specially fabricated.
Some replacement water pumps have non-removeable pulleys, as Randy mentioned. (This is the type that requires one of the original bolts be replaced with a stud, since there is no way to fit a bolt into the hole.) If there is no nut on the very nose of the pulley, it's the non-removeable, pressed-on type. Don't even try to remove that type pump's pulley since it requires a special setup in a press and should be exchanged with the pulley still installed.
Original-style pumps and older replacements had a ceramic seal that required a short dry run to seat it properly. The process is really simple, just *don't* top up the coolant right away after the pump, pulley and belt have all be installed. Run the engine with coolant low, below the level of the pump, for 30 to 60 seconds. That way the seal has a chance to seat. If this is not done, this type seal will nearly always leak a little bit.
*However*, most modern pumps have a different type of seal that doesn't require bedding in like this and shouldn't be run dry. So, be sure to ask whoever supplies your water pump before finishing the installation, if it's not covered in any directions.
Most pumps today do have permenently lubricated bearings , so don't have the drilling or zerk installed for that purpose like the original pumps did. However, most modern replacement pumps *do* have a flat spot in the casting where the original zerk was installed. I've heard of folks who were looking for maximum originality using some epoxy to glue a fake grease zerk onto the side of the pump. Hey, if originality is what turns your crank, why not!
If you want to spend more money and go for a maximum performance setup, there are aluminum pulleys and aluminum pump housing castings available. Both are for weight savings, but the latter is said to help cooling a little, since alu transfers heat better than the old cast metal housing. I don't imagine it's a huge difference in this case, however. The alu pulleys are available in both wide and narrow belt varieties, depending on what you are using on your engine.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif