Turn signal dash indicator lights

[jpat67bj8]

If all turn signal operate properly, what would be the cause for both left/right indicators to both flash? Car is restored 1967 BJ8 with new wiring harness.

 

[Keoke]

Please clarify your question???????

 

[GregW]

Yeah, I'm a little confused too. The description sounds like hazard lights. If the turns signals are operating properly, the left and right wouldn't flash at the same time. I'd think crossed wires at the bulb, but a '67 has a separate bulb and wires for signal and brakes.

 

[pkmh]

I have the same problem as you where both indicators on the dash appear to act in emergency hazard mode, when I activate the signal trafficator when making a turn. I was told there is a short somewhere. So in my case, I believe it is either somewhere in the trafficator assembly behind the steering wheel, or possibly the flasher unit's mounting. I learn recently here that it could also be the type of bulbs being used. Guess if you have the correct bulbs, then replacing would be the easiest way to start trouble shooting.

 

[healeyblue]

check all the lights for proper grounding. poor grounds cause all kinds of funny results

 

[Keoke]

I have the same problem as you where both indicators on the dash appear to act in emergency hazard mode, when I activate the signal trafficator when making a turn. I was told there is a short somewhere. So in my case, I believe it is either somewhere in the trafficator assembly behind the steering wheel, or possibly the flasher unit's mounting. I learn recently here that it could also be the type of bulbs being used. Guess if you have the correct bulbs, then replacing would be the easiest way to start trouble shooting.

WEL IT SOUNDS like there is a short circuit in the wiring to the dash lamps

 

[dwalpole]

Odds are they share a common bad ground. Which would cause each bulb to be the other's route to ground while operating the turn signals. Do the dash indicator lights work when you have the hazards going?

 

[jpat67bj8]

I will try to be clearer. Both turn signal indicator lights flash at the same time either by using the left or right signal. Go outside and look at the signal lights and they operate correctly for either side. After converting to LED bulbs and using the correct flasher from Superbright, I now find that all four signal lights front and rear flash at the same time like 4 way flashers. Remove the bulbs from the signal dash indicator lights and left and right exterior lights work correctly. The wiring harness was installed new a few years ago. Tend to believe there is a short from flasher to dash indicator lights, but yet to find it. I did notice that someone else has had this problem, but no solution mentioned. If I can't resolve, will just leave bulbs out as the brightness is well worth it.

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

I will try to be clearer. Both turn signal indicator lights flash at the same time either by using the left or right signal. Go outside and look at the signal lights and they operate correctly for either side. After converting to LED bulbs and using the correct flasher from Superbright, I now find that all four signal lights front and rear flash at the same time like 4 way flashers. Remove the bulbs from the signal dash indicator lights and left and right exterior lights work correctly. The wiring harness was installed new a few years ago. Tend to believe there is a short from flasher to dash indicator lights, but yet to find it. I did notice that someon e else has had this problem, but no solution mentioned. If I can't resolve, will just leave bulbs out as the brightness is well worth it.

Brand new harnesses can be a problem if not all the grounds are properly connected. Be sure to follow all the grounds to see where they go and are securely fastened to the chassis or other grounding points behind the gauges. Check the ground locations against the wiring diagram. This includes all the grounds for all the lights. I had a similar problem to yours and it was a loose ground plus when the indicator lights flashed they flashed fast and were dimmer than normal. Shorts tend to blow a fuse but non-grounded items look for an alternate way to ground usually from another circuit nearby.

 

[RAC68]

Take a look at your flasher connections. If the “L” terminal is switched with the “P” connection, you could be sending power in a reverse way through the common connection of the dash indicators to each of the dash bulbs and out though both sides of the external signal lights. Power would not direct power to the switched-to signal side but would activate the flasher which then would provide power to all signal-related bulbs starting with both dash indicators.

Good luck,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[TodE]

This may help! Watch the video at Moss Motors website on LED lights. They talk about the need for a ballist on each side of the turn signal lights. There may be bleed over from one side to the other. The guy in the video shows easy to understand diagrams of the problem.
I hope this helps.

Tod

 

[BJ8Healeys]

If all turn signal operate properly, what would be the cause for both left/right indicators to both flash? Car is restored 1967 BJ8 with new wiring harness.

The correct operation of the dash lights in a Healey depends on a close balance in circuit resistance and voltage. When you switch the turn signal to the left side, for example, 12 volts is applied to both dash lights. However, the right light also gets a voltage pulse from the flasher that cancels the voltage input to the right light, preventing it from flashing.
Your problem might be related to the different loads LED lights put on the circuit compared to incandescents. But sometimes cars with incandescent lights will have both dash lights flashing at the same time. This can be fixed permanently by disconnecting the light green/purple wire from the P terminal of the flasher and connecting it to ground. You might try this for your system to see if it fixes your problem.

 

[CanberraBJ8]

Hey Steve. Do you mean attaching the wire that goes TO the P terminal to ground, or the wire FROM the P terminal to ground? So earthing the P terminal?

 

[AutoArt]

Worked perfectly!!!!
Thank You
Daryl W. Wagner
OH3 AHC

 

[Bill Young]

Lot's of good advise on this interesting problem. The BJ8 turn indicator lamps are wired in an unusual way, for they use the filaments of the alternate turning lamps as a grounding path to light the bulb. Referencing Figure #2 attached, when “left” turn is selected, the front and rear left turn lamps are connect to the FL5 flasher relay. When the “P” terminal closes on the flasher relay to illuminate the turn indicator lamp, 12 vdc is applied to both sides of the right turn indicator lamp and it will not illuminate. However, when 12 vdc is applied to the left turn indicator lamp, and it is grounded through the filaments of the right turn bulbs, it is illuminated when the FL5 relay flashes. If one of the flasher lamp bulbs is burned out, the current is reduced to the FL5 flasher unit, and it will not flash correctly, indicating to the driver that there is a problem. Removing the light green/purple wire from the “P” terminal and grounding this wire will allow the turn indicator lamps to flash, however, you will lose the bulb filament monitoring feature, and you will have to reverse the wiring on the indicator lamps 2 lamps. If you change to LED bulbs, and keep the Lucas FL5 flasher unit, you will need to add ballast resistors in parallel with the bulbs, or change the flasher unit to the CEC EF33RL (or equal). I have written some articles soon to be published in the AHCA Healey Marque magazine.

Bill Young
sjahc.com

 

[RAC68]

Hi All,

A while back, I presented the results of my project to rebuild the "Flasher Relay Box" (the unit on all pre-BJ8 Phase 2s that control the rear Brake/Directional signals on 1 bulb filament on each side) using (2) 8-port relays per direction in the article by "Relay Box Rebuild" by Jean Caron. Although the project had its difficulties, the confusion was in how the dash directional indicators were wired and functioned. This confusion was clarified by Steve Byers and, although I did simplify the circuitry, my change did eliminate the involvement of the remote lighting system and any indication of remote bulb failure.

Here is a diagram of the dash indicator electrical flow, as described by Steve and Bill Young:

View attachment 56804
Ray(64BJ8P1)

 

[Deleted member 19315]

Hi All,

A while back, I presented the results of my project to rebuild the "Flasher Relay Box" (the unit on all pre-BJ8 Phase 2s that control the rear Brake/Directional signals on 1 bulb filament on each side) using (2) 8-port relays per direction in the article by "Relay Box Rebuild" by Jean Caron. Although the project had its difficulties, the confusion was in how the dash directional indicators were wired and functioned. This confusion was clarified by Steve Byers and, although I did simplify the circuitry, my change did eliminate the involvement of the remote lighting system and any indication of remote bulb failure.

Here is a diagram of the dash indicator electrical flow, as described by Steve and Bill Young:
View attachment 56811

View attachment 56804
Ray(64BJ8P1)

Can anyone help me reason out why my 100/6 dashboard indicator lamp for turn signals flashes all the time irrespective of trafficator position. The turn signal lamps all function normally. The circuit is standard and I am using normal twin filament bulbs in the turn signal lamps. I swapped the relay recently after the turn signals failed so this may be related the replacement relay appears to be the correct 3 pin type.

Andy

 

[RAC68]

Hi Hassad,

The flasher has 3 terminals with B (battery) connected to the car's power source and gates power to terminals L & P only when the flasher flashes. Your dash warning light receives its power from the P (pilot) terminal and the Healey's signal lights receive their power from the L (load) terminal. Since L & P are powered together and each car signal light and dash indicator are connected to their own ground, each light forms a completed circuit but only when the flasher flashes.

If you have not changed the circuitry external to the flasher, I would suggest first checking if your flasher is providing power to P when, and only when, L is powered. If not, I would replace the flasher. When viewing the Modified circuit above, eliminate one of the dash indicators and see the remaining dash indicator powered from a line coming form the flasher terminal P.

Keep in mind that the Trafficator, when switched to a side, will activate the Flasher Relay (terminals 4 or 8) to a signal side and will eliminate the brake light from functioning at that side (if brakes are applied) and direct load power to that side.

Hope this helps,
Ray(64BJ8P1)

 

[Deleted member 19315]

Ray, many thanks I'll check out that logic on the car, my 100/6 only has a single dashboard mounted indicator warning light which simply flashes when indicating in either direction so it should be relatively easy with your advice the track down the problem . I'm sure the flasher unit does have three terminals as you have said but they may be labelled differently than B, L &P however I reckon I can work it out.

I'm a pretty handy engineer and spanner jockey but a bit limited in dealing with electrickery....;-)

Happy New Year.

Andy

 

[vette]

Haasad. I have not been following this thread so if I restate something already said, my appologies.
If you have not changed any of the connected wires then I believe the problem is the flasher itself. I believe Ray mentioned that as well. I will attach a pic of the flasher relay because I believe you said that you had changed that earlier. Just check the connections on the relay to make sure they are the same as my drawing. I don't have a pic of the flasher handy but as Ray said, you must use a flasher with 3 terminals, looking at the back of the flasher, the terminal to the top left is "L" it should have a green/brown wire on it and it goes to the #1 terminal on the relay which is the top right terminal. That is actually power out to the relay and then thru the relay and on to the turn signal bulbs on the fenders. On the top right terminal of the flasher is terminal "B"
and it should have a green wire on it. This is power coming into the circuit from the top fuse in the 2-fuse holder. So this one would be hot all the time as long as the fuse is good and the ignition switch is on. On the flasher unit the "P" terminal is the one that is mostly central and lower on the flasher. This "P" terminal should have a Light Green wire on it. This wire goes to the Flasher Indicator Bulb on your dashboard. In my schmatic it shows that this light green wire changes to a light yellow wire inside the harness (God knows why) so at the dashboard Flasher Indicator Bulb you will see a light yellow wire but know this is the light green one from the flasher. The other side of the Flasher Indicator Bulb on the dashboard is a black ground wire that just goes to ground. So here's the way this deal works. The flasher will flash the green/brown wire going to the relay #1 terminal from the "L" terminal on the flasher and it will flash the light green wire going to the Flasher Indicator Bulb from the "P" terminal on the flasher, BUT.... it will only flash it if there is a load on the circuit. In other words one of the turn signals has to be turned on. The flasher sees the current going thru it because the bulbs are on and this causes the heating element in the flasher to start to flash.
IF YOUR FLASHER INDICATOR BULB IS FLASHING ALL THE TIME IRREGARDLESS OF THE POSITION OF THE TRAFFICATOR, then the flasher is shorted or the relay is shorted. Lift the wire off the "L" terminal of the flasher or the #1 terminal of the relay and see if your dashboard indicator bulb stops flashing. If it does then I would say that your relay is screwed up. It could have a slight short in it that is just enough to have a small current that the flasher feels it and starts to flash. Or the relay could have a contact stuck which is allowing some current/voltage to leak thru to one of the turnsignal bulbs and it is not hardly illuminating and you havn't noticed it. IF this is the case, then i think contacts 1,2 or 6 would be the culprits. Also make sure your brake lights are working as they should. IF something is irregular there it would indicated the problem to be in the relay. Here is a pic of the relay. You will notice that which ever winding at the bottom is energize by the trafficator, then that will pull the contacts to the left or right. The you can follow thru and see which terminals become energized. If the trafficator is in its central position meaning it is not turning anything on the looking at the drawing of the relay you will see that power for the brakes comes from the brake pressure switch terminal #5 and goes thru the closed contacts to terminal 7 & 3 which are the brake bulbs. If one of the relay winding gets energized from the trafficator, lets say the right side winding , then the contact breaks from the 12v brake switch circuit and makes contact with the flasher 12v power at terminal #1. Then terminal 3 which was the brake filament is now the flasher filament.