Wedge TR7 engine swap

[James in Michigan]

Have tried in vain to locate a chevy buick V6 spec'd for John's swap kit.Absolutely getting scarce.

But, can get my hands on a Datsun 280 Z engine, trans, diff. Has some interesting qualities.

Anyone tried this , or care to comment?

Thanks

 

[78Z]

Have you looked at a late model Camaro/Firebird - they came with 200hp Buick 3.8L V6 / T5.

The only problem is the 280 Z engine is heavy and long. I'd do some measuring first.

 

[StagByTriumph]

James,

If you are going to swap a TR7 engine, why not make it a TR8? There is nothing like a V8, and installing a Rover 3.5 you can buy all the parts you need as they are all TR8 parts! It is a bolt in solution. Doing a conversion with non-standard parts always produces all sorts of interesting fitting problems and when you go to sell it, an "unknown" conversion will make it very difficult to sell. On the other hand, a TR7 to TR8 conversion Triumph owners understand, it has a real Triumph repair and operations manual with parts catalogue you can always order replacement parts easily.
Rover 3.5 V8's are not expensive, well documented, all the parts you need are available from the Wedge Shop, TSI, or other TR7/8 supply places, and you can do a wide variety of carburetors or even a stock Fuel Injection setup!

Best thing is no custom brackets, no custom exhaust, no custom wiring, no custom linkages or no custom hoses needed!!
You will not be sorry you did a Rover V8.

 

[James in Michigan]

Thanks guys, had not considered a V8 from a rover, will check into it. Sounds a lot easier to do than the 280Z- I guess it isn't true that you stag people want to hog all the horsepower for yourselves....

The chevy V6 sounds interesting too, where can I find the info/suppliers on that? I would think it would have to be injected .


I appreciate your help!

 

[78Z]

The problem with the Rover V8 is that its fairly expensive (being scarce in NA) to buy. Also the standard output isn't that great and its expensive to build to respectable levels compared to SBC and SBFs.

The Buick V6 was devired from the the Buick/Rover V8 with 2 cylinders lopped off and use of iron block so it will weight a little more. The advantage of using it is lots of cheap aftermarket parts like cams, 4bbl carbs, etc to easily boast hp over 200.

The last couple years (1996-2002) of the Camaro/Firebird used the 3.8L V6 that came with 200hp standard and used the T5 manual tranny. I'd guess they go reasonably cheap in scrapyards as everyone wants the V8 versions. Its fuel injected of course but lots of carb options available (for real cheap an eighties fwd Tornado with the 4.1L version had a 4bbl that will bolt up)

 

[James in Michigan]

Thanks for the info 78Z - that motor and trans should be a lot easier to find than the older chev buick V6. I would carburete it too, don't want to think about hooking up a computer and all the sensers and modules.

Do you know anyone that is selling install kits for this?
Or maybe a website ?

Thanks
James

 

[78Z]

I think Edelbrock has all the stuff to convert to carb. Its been a while since I looked.

 

[Mark Beiser]

I'm a little confused. Your saying your having a hard time locating one of the V6 engines from an '80s rear wheel drive Buick that is needed for the Johns Cars conversion?

There were litterally millions of them produced...

I actually considdered it as an option, but I wanted to get the engine out of a Buick GNX twin turbo.

I have seen that kit from Johns, its very nice, complete and requires little to no modificaton of the car. Done well, its a very slick installation.

 

[StagByTriumph]

78Z,
I guess I am missing something, I live in North America, Colorado in fact, Rover V8 engines are plentiful and relatively inexpensive, not difficult to rebuild as they are "basically" a General Motors 300 series V8. The engine is used in most every V8 Land Rover made since 1981 and earlier which is very popular in any winter climate region. There are at least a dozen 3.5 & 4.0 engines I can lay my hands on within 50 miles radius.
D&D Fabrications is in Almont Michigan, probably one of the best Rover and aluminum V8 engine builders in all of North America D&D Fabrications in Michigan.
Agreed, not as plentiful as Ford or GM iron, but surely not rare by any stretch.

So what am i missing?

 

[78Z]

StagByTriumph - I guess I'm saying comparitively. Also what kind of manual tranny would you use with it? Surely not a Land Rover one.

 

[Mark Beiser]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 78Z:
StagByTriumph - I guess I'm saying comparitively. Also what kind of manual tranny would you use with it? Surely not a Land Rover one.<hr></blockquote>

Standard TR7/8 transmission with the correct bell housing. There are also kits to fit a Toyota Supra transmission.

 

[StagByTriumph]

Yep, A British Leyland 5 speed TR7/8 transmission, also not difficult to find and not expensive. That is the really nice part, all the conversion parts are straight bolt in doing a TR7 to 8 conversion. There is no guessing on how to make it fit, and there are real actual schematics for everything.

That is something you can not say about any other type of conversion, someone someday has to guess what the Previous Owner did and how to fix it.

 

[StagByTriumph]

As a post note, adding BHP to a Rover V8 is also relatively easy. Machining any engine cost money, and the Rover V8 is far from "exotic" classification that would justify high dollar machine shop bills. Bolt on solutions for cam, lifters, flat top pistons, carburation or FI, headers, ignition system and you can easily get over 250 bhp with just bolt on solutions. Compare parts prices that are the same for the good old USA Buick 215 V8 and you get equivalent prices to hot rodding any US iron.
Add roller rockers, lightened flywheel and high rev timing chain and gears for improving the upper end RPM, all still basic bolt on stuff.
Extracting more bhp of corse requires a bit more work like boring and stroking, cross bolt block, but builders take the Rover/Buick V8 to 6.0 liters and over 600 BHP.

So James, if you want, I am getting ready to stuff my original Triumph V8 back into my one Stag that has the Rover 3.5 liter 225 bhp setup installed. After you do your research, make me an offer on this recent rebuilt (3000 miles) Rover 3.5 engine complete with 3.9 EFI setup and rebuilt 5 speed transmission and clutch slave all ready to bolt onto a TR8 subframe. You may need to buy TR8 engine brackets but I have the old SD1 brackets and transmission bracket that are close to the TR8 setup. Come on down to Colorado and drive it first if you want to test the performance (be warned, you might end up wanting a Stag though!

).
This Rover V8 modifications are:
flat top pistons, performance Erson Street cam, matched ERSON high rev hydraulic lifters, Edlebrock high rev timing chain and timing gears, headers, 3.9 Lucas EFI with hot wire air meter and 14CUX ECU with Rover wire harness and new dual O2 sensors, new engine sensors, K&N filter, gear reduction starter, all produces about 225 bhp.

[ 03-16-2004: Message edited by: StagByTriumph ]</p>

 

[Mark Beiser]

Hmmm....thats really tempting, how much would you be wanting for all that? =)

 

[James in Michigan]

Hey Mark, get in line! I have first dibs on this setup ....

Glenn that sounds great- would love to spin the tires , errrrrr I mean take it for a pleasant motoring experience while staying within all legal requirements....

But! simply can't take off from work. Especially hard asking the boss for time off to check out the LBC when he is a porsche lover. Has one for sale by the way..

The info you and 78Z and Mark have shared is absolutely great, and I really appreciate it.

I do have a question for you re the trans- if I understand it correctly, I can use the original 5 speed. Do I need a different bellhousing , flywheel , clutch? Will the original radiator work?
And most important , will my AC compresser bolt up to the motor?

Does anyone make a kit for the conversion ?
I assume you had to install and wire the FI set up- that is not an easy job.

James

 

[Mark Beiser]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by James in Michigan:
Hey Mark, get in line! I have first dibs on this setup ....<hr></blockquote>

Is ok, I'm still mostly commited to going the sprint conversion rout, but the rover v8 option is a very close 2nd, and if I could get in on a complete setup for a reasonable price....

I'm actually going to satisfy my Rover V8 craving by purchasing the SD1 that Tony has for sale when he gets back from Alaska.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I do have a question for you re the trans- if I understand it correctly, I can use the original 5 speed. Do I need a different bellhousing , flywheel , clutch? Will the original radiator work?<hr></blockquote>

You would need the bellhousing and clutch components for a TR8. They can be had new for a reasonable price from just about anyone that supplies parts for them.

It would be very VERY highly recommended to get a TR8 radiator. You could get your TR7 radiator recored and an extra row added to it, but you would have issues with getting hoses that fit properly.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>And most important , will my AC compresser bolt up to the motor?<hr></blockquote>

No, you will need to change the AC compressor over to a GM A-6 type, and change a couple of hoses. A reman compressor and the hoses can be had for less than $100 at an Auto Zone or similar if you do some research on what you need. I could dig up that info for you if you want.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Does anyone make a kit for the conversion ?<hr></blockquote>

S&S preperations, Rimmer Brothers, TSI, Wedgeparts and others all have what would be needed, some in kit form.

IMO, S&S has the best option. They don't use an actual TR8 subframe, they designed a modified subframe, and built production jigs for making them. It lowers the engine 2 inches to clear even early style bonets but maintains the origonal TR7 suspension geometry, wich is slightly better than the stock TR8.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I assume you had to install and wire the FI set up- that is not an easy job.James<hr></blockquote>

The hardest part is the engine wiring harness and the setup of the ECU, both of wich would already be done for you in this case. mating it to the TR7 wiring is relativly easy. The hardest part being the replacement of the tac with a TR8 one.

 

[philman]

you might purchase the book "A Guide to Racing Your TR7V8" by Jon Wolfe available from www.tr7v8-racing.com. a wealth of information reguarding engines, suspension, transmissions, differentials, etc.

 

[StagByTriumph]

Seems to me there is a guy in California clearing out 13 or more SD1's. But that is a starting point for parts gathering, not bolt in solutions.

Fact is I have a number of people waiting for me to pull this setup out. Not promised as yet so selling it would not be a problem as it would be sold complete and running, that is engine with EFI, the complete attached wire harness and ECU and schematic, alternator, transmission bolted up and shifter. Buy the time I do pull it out, the ECU will have been reprogrammed more for the way I want the engine for best street/highway economy and performance driving although it runs nicely with the stock program.

FWIW, I do not spin the tires (much) as I still have the OE Stag differential and I don't want diff pieces scattered all over the road. I did pull a hole shot in the driveway once just to make sure things would hold together for normal driving, got the stains cleaned off before the wife got home, that was driver seat and driveway tread marks.

Price? Well any decent stock engine job is worth $2K-$3K for block and heads, and that does not include the EFI already set up, flat top pistions, performance cam - lifters - timing chain and gears, extra machining to get EFI things to fit under the hood, block hugger headers and an attached rebuilt 5 speed transmission with new clutch and slave, so I don't think I will have problem getting $3500 for it as a complete running bolt in setup with pointless (Ignitor) distributor, wires and spark plugs, and a few additional misc parts. Any offers or incentive to get me moving faster on my Triumph V8 rework??