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TR6 TR6 performance

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ichthos

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I am interested in better performance for my TR6. I am not going to be racing my car - I just want to have fun driving it. In my last post I had considered the supercharger. After the replies (besides the fact that I can't really afford it right now) it doesn't seem like a wise idea. So, what things would you suggest to increase perfomance? I am trying to keep my car as stock as possible, mainly because with my knowlege with a stock car I can at least look up information in a book. Is it worth having the carbs professionally rebuilt? What would a professional do to to rebuild it that I can not? Any recommnendations on a rebuilder? I do have an extra set of carbs I can install if I send them out. Any other things besides electronic ignition that would increase performance/gas milage?
Thanks, Kevin
 
uh... usually performance<>gas mileage

if you are comfortable rebuilding the carbs then in my opinion a pro rebuild isn't going to get you anything you can't do yourself except for some very shiny-looking carbs that make you feel good about all the money you spent /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm not sure if your carbs have the throttle-shaft wear problems that SU's have. Re-bushing the shafts(if applicable) is really the only thing a pro would do that you need special equipment for (and you could just get them re-bushed without them doing the rebuild for you)...

Unless you're dealing with some wicked vacuum leaks or constant fuel leaks you are not going to get much improvement over stock from a rebuild.

I'm also of the opinion that electronic ignition is not the magic performance pill everyone is looking for.

A better flowing exhaust would be a fairly inexpensive upgrade that will give you a little improvement.

After that you're into the territory of better cams, porting the head, etc etc etc.

Pick up Kas Kastner's book on triumph tuning and read it a couple of times to get an idea of all the crazyness you can get into if you're willing to spend the dough. www.kaskastner.com

And think about this stuff long and hard. What are your goals? Do you want better straight-line performance? You want a higher top speed? Better handling? Are you going to persue a national SCCA championship? Autocross?

or do you just want to have fun driving windy twisty roads?

Set some parameters and goals and then think about it again. It can be an endless spiral.

In my case my goals are simply to have fun driving. I've done nothing but tune it up to stock and it runs very well now. 30 minutes on hilly country roads and I'm satisfied. I have a smile on my face and I'm good for at least another week of my daily commuter-coma drudgery.

Actually the best improvement I did was rebuild the suspension. It was sketchy at best before and after the rebuild it was like a completely different car.

Join a club if you can and go on some runs. Get in good with them and ride along in other member's cars. See what you like about them compared to yours. You could very easily turn this into a frustrating experience of spending money on things in search of some elusive goal. I hate to see this happen to our dwindling supply of nut-jobs who love these cars. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
TR6's are known for a lot of faults but in the early 70's they were NOT known to be slow. I guess the comp was with MG's Sprites and all the other TR6 wantabe's. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif I don't think you can do little and expect it to compete with the modern 4 cylinder motored cars of today.
 
[ QUOTE ]
It seems that you are determined to do something to go faster. How fast do you feel you need to go "to have fun driving it"?

That might help get better information as to what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks Tom... you managed to sneak in what I was trying to say in 2 lines instead of rambling for 30. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Well said.
 
Before I added any more power I put my time & money into the brakes & suspension. Stock springs, shocks , brakes & bushings are easily uprated & make a stunning difference, besides making the car safer & way more fun to drive.
I would look at better quality tires, 205/15's , better brake pads & shoes as well as SS brake lines. For suspension get Prothane or nylatron bushings, I like the rear tube shock conversion although some owners have had issues with it (I have not). I also liked the lowering compettion springs. Your car will handle like a go cart, which will make it a blast to drive.
Performance is not only about 0-60 but making right & left turns too.
 
Its all a trade off. Increasing one thing will reduce another. So it is important to first define what you want. Then go crazy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
....... So it is important to first define what you want. Then go crazy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Swift6:
Did you make that up or was that just off the cuff; reguardless, I like! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
I have read your earlier post on superchargers as well as this one, and will give you my opinion.

First, I agree with Jim and Tom that it would be best to decide how much more power you want before you decide how to modify the car. Will a 10-15% increase satisfy you or will that leave you wanting more?

If you want a large power increase this can be acheived either by conventional tuning methods or by a supercharger installation. Each has advantages: the supercharger adds power at low revs as well as high, so the performance gain is more easily available in normal driving, but you have to pay for it all at once. Conventional tuning allows you to spread out the cost somewhat,(though some changes work best with others), and allows you to stop when you are satisfied.

Getting more power from the engine by any method will increase the stress on components so you must make sure the engine and cooling system are in good condition first, but if done sensibly there should not be any problem. The supercharger kit Moss has produced for the MGB is by all accounts conservatively engineered and does not cause problems; I expect the same will apply to the TR6.
Remember that trying to drive fast even in an unmodified car will also result in more stress and wear on the engine because you will be revving it higher.

I am not aware of any reason a supercharger should not work well with long stroke motors; in fact because of the narrow bore they have smaller valves and should benefit more from forced induction. TR6 compression ratios are quite low so should not be a problem unless you change the pulley ratios to increase the boost further, have a marginal radiator or set the mixture or timing incorrectly. Pre-war Bentleys had a stroke of about 113mm. IIRC and superchargers worked quite well on them, as well as modern, shortstroke applications like the MINI and Miata.

I would caution you against starting to use conventional tuning methods and then adding a supercharger later as someone seemed to suggest would be possible; it is an eiter/or choice as I see it. Raising the compression ratio is a good first step in conventional tuning, but will make that cylinder head unsuitable for supercharged applications. A performance camshaft designed for use with a supercharger will have higher lift but not much more duration because high overlap will mean some of the mixture being blown into the intake exits the open exhaust.

So the bottom line is, before you spend a lot of money, give the alternatives some thought.
All the above is just my opinions, others may differ...
Simon.
 
Kevin,
I labored over my latest TR6 over a 5 year period. The first thing I did was to have the engine built to spec and enjoyed it as-is for about 2 years. As time passed, I would take on a week-end project, which often lasted a month, such as safety issues. I rebuilt my brakes with all brand-new stuff. At about the same interval, I took down the entire suspension and rebuilt it new, adding tube shocks and lowered competition springs, better wheels and great tyres (ya gotta add that British-speak to make it authentic). Better ride and better stopping was a good first step. Since I had a rebuilt short block, I wanted power next. Over the next 2 years I had the head reworked to increase the compression ration to 9.5:1, added a fast road cam, roller rockers, headers and sport exhaust, triple carbs, better cooling, on and on. I have a bunch of monies tied up in my car but it has been my only hobby for the last 5 years. I guess what I am saying is get your car to be reliable and safe first. Enjoy it for what it is, a truly unique roadster that will repay you with tons of satisfaction. Just beware that these babies can consume you and affect your marriage if you let them. Unless you are independantly wealthy, watch how you spend your money. Enjoy it along the way. Let your wife get involved in the funs times. Just go slowly and enjoy the ride. At 60, a 150hp TR6 is my Viagra and my feeling of being different than most anyone else. I enjoy the looks and the waves that I get on every cruise. I guess I don't mean to tell you how to run your life. Just stop and smell the Castrol along the way. Now, if you are 58 and I am giving you advice, I will really feel silly.

Whatever you do, don't let someone talk you into Weber DGV carbs.

Bill
 
funny, i just took a set of dgv's off my tr7. i was unsatisfied with the results, and for some reason i had to run a hotter thermostat to run properly.
 
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Great advise on the DGV'S /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Absolutely!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
Bill has some REALLY good advice here. At least from my perspective. Like Bill, my TR6 has been built up over time. The first thing I did was work on making the car reliable. Then the brakes, tires and suspension. Then myself. What I mean by that is that I improved my abilities as a driver. Most everyone thinks they are really good drivers but are not when you really watch their driving habits. Through professional instruction and track day experiences, including track day professional instruction in my own car. It was amazing what I could get that car to do with the stock engine. Such as run similar lap times on a short twisty track as supercharged mid nineties 4.6 litre Mustangs. They hated hearing a 100hp early 70's British car could equal there lap times. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I would drive my TR6 to and from the track days as well, packing the car with everything needed and then unpacking it in the pit area. (One reason I still have the luggage rack on it.) At the end of the day I had to pack up and drive home. Because of that I had to learn how to drive fast without being overly hard on the equipment. The only failure that I ever had was when a rocker arm adjusting nut stripped at 5k rpm. Replaced the nut and everything seemed fine. That replacement nut is still on the engine (the stock engine is sitting in the corner of my garage, engine in the car was an extra builder I picked up) and ran for three more years without any problems. And this was on

I guess my point is that my engine, other than getting the stocker reliable, was the last thing to get attention (body and paint was done during the engine exchange). But then it got a lot. Unfortunately I haven't been able to visit tracks with my TR6 since the engine was finished. Between schedule conflicts and tracks being closed by development I just haven't been able to get back out there. There are many levels of performance to consider. Now you just have to figure out which ones to concentrate on first.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
....... So it is important to first define what you want. Then go crazy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Swift6:
Did you make that up or was that just off the cuff; reguardless, I like! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Off the cuff. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
Lot's of great advice here!

In terms of the engine, I think I'd be most inclined to install headers, a mildly hotter cam and bump up compression a bit. From that starting point, it would be fun to try Goodparts triple carb setup, although I might opt for SUs just because I'm a little more familiar with them than ZS. When I win the Lotto I'll put on EFI.

Either way, a high energy/,multi-spark electronic ignition system would be a good upgrade. Attention to cooling and keeping things well lubricated becomes more and more important with each step up in engine performance.

Others mention tuning suspension, also a great idea since it will definitely help you go fastah around the corners. A lightened flywheel and perhaps a differntial ratio change, combined with a 5-speed or OD gearbox are fun ways to get more acceleration, and still have "highway manners".

The list goes on and on and on!

In addition to Kas' books, get Roger William's "How to Improve TR5/250/6"... along with a bib to catch any drool while reading it.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
Thanks everyone, you have given me a lot to think about. After reading all of the comments, the overriding message seems to be improving one's Tr6 is a matter of time and experience. I have been going to a local British car show in Bellevue, WA and drooling for years. This will be the first year I will actually own one when I visit. I am going to try and find a local car club while at the show. My restoration has come a long ways, but it will be a long way to getting my car where I feel it is reliable and totally safe. I guess I will stick to the basics, get to know my car a little better, and then delve into the finer points. By the way Bill, I am 50, and you shouldn't have felt silly even if I were 58. I will never be too old to listen to advice from others.
Kevin
 
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