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TR6 TR6 Brakes Problem

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bigbadbluetr6

bigbadbluetr6

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A few years ago my dad and I were having problems with my brake master cylinder. After fighting rebuild kits out of Victoria British(in our backyard) I finally just bought a new brake master cylinder out of VB. Now that my 6 has become my daily driver I have been able to notice my brakes. A few weeks ago I noticed the brake pedal wasn't as hard as it had been. It got smushy. Finally it went to where I had no brakes. The fluid in my master was dark, almost black. My dad and I bleed the brakes out and they were good. So the last couple of weeks since the bleeding I have had to pump them to get a feel on the pedal I like. I have been taking it easy and being careful. So tonight I drove home from work and the pedal is getting smushy again, were I don't like it. So I have a few questions. I'm going to bleed them tomorrow for a fix for a couple of days. What is causing my brakes to do this? Is the black fluid in the master turning black b/c the seals in the master cylinder I brought a few years ago getting eaten by the brake fluid(using Castrol dot 3 and 4)? Do I need to rebuild the master? Replace all the brake lines? Maybe even the splitters(valve and switch-pressure from VB catalog)? Take the splitters out and clean them? Any help or advice would be great. I would like to fix this problem for good so I can stop messing with it and so it will be more adequate for quick stops if necessary. Thanks
Eric
 
Eric
first thing I would do is pull all four wheels and check the rear cylinders and see if you see leaking, then check the front calipers for leaks, if you had a leak your fluid level in the MC would be dropping, if no leaks anywhere you probably need to rebuild your MC. Apple hyrolics I think can rebuild them, I had my rear shocks done by them a year ago and they did a nice job, if its your daily driver you might have to get a new MC and replace. the flex hoses could be expanding but not so much that your peddle goes to the floor
 
I'm assuming that your system is not actually losing any fluid? If that's the case, it seems likely that the master cylinder is leaking internally. Just an FYI, The Roadster Factory has both master cylinders (Girling/Lucas brand) and rebuild kits for same on sale for the next several days. Of course, it's also worth assessing the rest of the system as suggested, since wheel cylinders, rebuilt calipers and kits for same are also on sale.
 
master cylinder internal leakage. Tip off is the fluid turning black(rubber seal deterioration) within a short period of time..
 
I had same problem with all new from VB, master cylinder, wheel cylinders and caliper seals. First day caliper seals leaked, upon inspection they were all a slightly different thickness. Soon after black fluid in master. I ended up replacing the whole mess. Argh.
 
I returned my "white box" master cylinder to VB also. Am questioning if there are any aftermarket MC's that are of decent quality except the units that are made in America and don't look at all like the originals. I like the look of the original reservoir. It seem's the consensus is to have an original MC rebuilt by AppleHyd, etc.
 
angelfj said:
AND Apple's warranty used to be inviolate
Click to expand...
Wassa matter, they run out of black ink?

Ba-da-boomp.
 
I had a new MC about 8 years ago which has been excellent. Came in a green box, with reservoir, looked exactly like the original. I think it was made in UK - wasn't aware of it being NOS. Have used Dot 4 GTLMA fluid. I had the black mess in the reservoir before replacing. Got it from a Moss reseller.
 
I bought a VB slave cylinder a few years ago. Installed it in the springs, and by mid June was losing my clutch. I rebuilt it with a kit from TRF and haven't had any problems since. VB must be sourcing their rubber products from other suppliers than TRF and Moss.
 
I have one from TRF (TRW Brand)in the 250. It came in a box labeled, "use of silicone brake fluid voids warranty". I've been using silicone in this system for 2 years. I have noticed no change in performance.
 

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I would try a rebuild kit to see if it works out ok. Of course, look at the bore in the master and see if there are any noticeable pits before you rebuild it. On the other hand the one shot fix is have Apple or White Post rebuild it with a sleeve. Both have a fast turn around. By the way, I really don't know what kits Apple and White Post use for the rebuilds; they may just know how to source parts that don't disintegrate at a fast rate. Cost at either place for a rebuild with sleeve is usually less than new parts.
 
angelfj said:
I have one from TRF (TRW Brand)in the 250. It came in a box labeled, "use of silicone brake fluid voids warranty". I've been using silicone in this system for 2 years. I have noticed no change in performance.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry about the silicone fluid thing, unless you're really concerned about a warranty! :wink: Meanwhile, TRW is [one of]the official successor to Girling/Lucas. (I'm using the brackets because I've heard that there is still some more or less "official" Girling manufacture in India, but I'm not clear on what branding they use.) Anyway, a TRW-boxed master cylinder is as close to OEM as you can get, since it essentially IS the OEM product.

As for rebuild kits, the current listing online for The Roadster Factory seems to indicate (by the "HK" prefix on the part number) that the rebuild kit is NOT Lucas/Girling/TRW, who apparently discontinues and reintroduces various products at whim these days. I've yet to try any of The Roadster Factory's "HK" rebuild kits, so I can't vouch for their quality. Many years ago, I'd tried a couple of rebuild kits from Victoria British. All I'll say is that I hope the quality is better 25 years later. The kits I got then contained some very hard rubber pieces, some so hard that you literally could not fit them without them splitting, which kinda reduces the value of the rebuild....
 
Andrew Mace said:
The kits I got then contained some very hard rubber pieces, some so hard that you literally could not fit them without them splitting, which kinda reduces the value of the rebuild....
Click to expand...

I believe that is called understatement for effect...
 
Guys I have bleed both the front brakes and the pedal has increased in stiffness. Don't know how long it will last. Ordered on of the HK kits out of The Roadster Factory. They are on back order so who knows how long it will take to get here. I will just be careful with the brakes. The plan is to rebuild my current master with the new rebuild kit and hopefully that solves my problem. If not I might still have another master laying around somewhere and will snd it off to Apple for them to rebuild it. It is nice to have VB 15 minutes away from my house but some of their stuff is not up to par. Their truck division has a research and design department and is keeping the British car business going. Its going to tough to keep the passion for vehicles in the company since the passing of Leo Long.
 
My complete braking and clutch system was sourced from TRF (2 yrs prior) and have had no issues other than the dissipation of clutch fluid
justed flushed all systems and went to silicone DOT 5
seems to be solid
just my 2 cents
 
Quick point,
you can't just bleed the front brakes (if you don't have a tandem master cylinder especially). Bleed the back brakes first starting with the one farthest away from the master, then bleed the front brakes (same as previous note). You have to get ALL the air out of the system.
R
 
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