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TR4/4A TR4 chassis reinforcement ?

phid75

Freshman Member
Offline
Hi all,

Stripped chassis of my 62 TR4 revealed a badly repaired front suspension mounts (following front RH side crash). I had to cutoff all lower mounts, engine mount and even cut parts of the chassis and the turret beam where mounts had teared the underlying metal.
chassis_tourelleG8.jpg


I'm now ready to weld new patches and required mounts & fulcrum pin. I know there are some reinforcement kits for TR4 IRS chassis, and I was wondering if some reinforcement exist and are advisable for the TR4 chassis ? It would be a pity to do all this welding to set back a weak structure /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Thanks for your advices

Philippe-
 
Philippe that looks a bit like a quilt with all those patches, and I wonder if the suspension mounting points are accurately located after all that heating and cooling.
It might be possible to find a right front "corner" and weld it on all as one piece so you don't have all those patches.
In any case it would be wise to use a jig to check for alignment and geometry. The original shop manual for the car gives all the dimensions and the range of tolerances.
If it is properly repaired I don't think the strength will be a big problem, unless perhaps you are using very sticky tyres, as the tubular crossmember which bolts in between the upper suspension mounts will stiffen things up quite a bit, and the square-section member under the engine is very strong. (Please note that this is just an opinion; I am not an expert).
I hope others will offer opinions....
Simon.
 
Hi Philippe,

I agree with Simon, you need to be very careful realigning everything in this area. Just a little off will transfer to the wheel and tire as significant error, effecting suspension and steering geometry whcih can give the car strange handling and steering characteristics and wear out tires rapidly.

The overall construction of the TR4 in this front area is strong, much better than the TR4A was originally. Without actually looking at the area closely, it's a little hard to give good advice. There are various areas that can be strengthened. Bends or flared openings such as were originally in the motor mounting brackets add a lot of rigidity and strength.

Weld quality must be very good and care must be taken not to overheat the frame and cause warping.

Check carefully the steering rack mount welds.

There are a number of places you can strengthen, if you wish.

One is the steering rack mounts (add welded plates to reinforce the existing welds).

Before doing too much more on the frame, be sure to bolt the upper cross brace tube back in place, between the spring towers. This is important to help keep things aligned.

If at all possible, the rest of the frame should be held in a jig to keep it aligned.

Another area of concern is the angular brace behind the spring tower. First check it very carefully near the bottom where it's welded to the main frame rail. This is a common rust area. Water gets trapped inside. It rusts from the inside out. Drill a 1/4" hole on the inside face (toward the engine), as close to the bottom as possible. This will help it drain in the future. Triangular reinforcement gussets can be put in the corners, if you wish. After the welding and painting are done, plan to inject some Waxoyl or similar into this brace.

When you go to reinstall the pieces shown missing in your picture, you might want to use heavier sheet steel as a base, or double up the original 16 gauge, along the top of the main frame rail. If you do, you'll need to allow for the change in dimensions.

While the frame is stripped, there are a number of other areas that can be improved.

I like to weld 3/8" NF nuts inside the upper fulcrum inner mounting holes. It just makes removal and installation much easier.

The four frame rails that angle to the central box, forming a big X, are C-shaped. You can add a lot of rigidity adn strength to the frame by boxing these in completely. Triangular gussets in the corners of the diamond shaped areas can help too.

The most rigid method here is to add a large skid plate nearly completely enclosing the diamond shapes on either side of the central box. You have to work around the parking brake mechanism on the one side. And, it will be more difficult to route brake pipes and fuel lines on their respective sides. Plus significant weight is added and the plate will trap dirt and water. But, it does make for the most rigidity in the frame.

It's possible to add some reinforcement at the rear engine mounting brackets (actually the rear gearbox mount).

The body support outriggers can easily be reinforced by driving a close-fitting pipe inside, then welding it in place. Use some plug welds along the lengths and weld the ends.

Do the same thing to the rear spring shackle tube cross-member. Some like to add triangular gussets here, for even more support.

Optionally the rear-most tube cross-member can have a pipe driven in and welded, as added reinforcement.

Reinforce the rear shock mounting plates attachment to the frame, as needed. There isn't room here to add triangular gussets, but some heavier strips on the inside, that extend down onto the inner face of the frame as far as possible, can help. Some of the vendors sell kits for reinforce these brackets, might make it easier.

The front mounting point of the leaf spring puts a lot of stress on the frame. Flitch plates, which double up the thickness there, can be added as extra reinforcement.

Some years ago there were some articles in Grass Roots Motorsports with a lot of ideas for strengthening TR4 frames. Probably some I've forgotten here. Also, Roger William's "Restoring TR4" book gives a lot of good suggestions and is pretty well illustrated.

Best of luck with your project!

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
 
Correct me if I am wrong guys. Wouldn't it be possible at this point of disassembly to change the lower A arm mounts to something more resembling a 4A through 6 only a bit stronger? The lower mounts on a 4 are very strong but I would think rather difficult to get properly aligned given that so much has been removed. Being able to shim the suspension back into proper alignment would be a big plus. It would also be nice to be able to dial in some negative camber.
 
Hi,

Yes, it would be possible to install a TR4A-style mount, but the stronger, aftermarket variety. That might be a good idea and would allow for some shimming and adjustment.

But I sort of doubt that could ever be as strong as the original TR4 horizontal pin. Careful positioning of the pin could move camber from original +3 to a more neutral stance.

An alternative is adjustable upper fulcrum replacements that can be used to dial in negative camber. RevingtonTR offers them. You can see how these look installed on my TR4 at https://www.triumphowners.com/640 (look in "Photos - Front Suspension" for several views). The lower mounts on this car are original, and camber is now approx. -1/2 or -1. Castor can also be adjusted/corrected by moving shims around, that are fitted on either side of the ball joint. The car still needs to go to the alignment shop to finalize these adjustments, then the fulcrums will be welded up.

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
 
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