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TR2/3/3A TR3B overdrive trans fluid

TFB

Jedi Knight
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Installing my rebuilt overdrive,and although it will be awhile before its running,I want to fill the trans with an inexpensive trans fluid to check for leaks and after maybe the first hundred miles if everything checks out go to the redline mt-90.
I have read recomendations for 30w motor oil,or gl4,gl5
Also what is total cap. of trans and OD.
any thoughts appreciated
Tom
 
To fill the overdrive and the transmission takes 2 quarts of oil. I use Valvoline 20W50 R (the "R" is for racing) in my 1958 TR3A and I buy the oil at my usual auto parts store. I have used this oil since 1990 without any lube or slippage issues. I change it every 3000 to 5000 miles.

If you are looking for a cheap oil to test it and flush it out, I would advise any 20W30 oil if it's for a short period.

There are so many different answers to this question that I suggest to search the TR Forum archives on this subject.
 
After Don gave me the same advice years ago I have been using the Valvoline 20W50 R in both my OD boxes. It is great stuff and has served me well. To be honest, the cost of two quarts of that is so insignificant compared to the rebuild and the cost of owning/operating these cars, I would say just use the right stuff off the bat and don't worry about it even if you replace it after only a short time.
 
Redline MT-90 is rated GL4, so I wouldn't exactly call it "steering away". But in addition to meeting the GL4 specification (which only covers some aspects of performance, not all of them by any means), MT-90 has been optimized for use in synchronized manual transmissions. Some kind of magic about increased friction between the synchro rings and gear cones, without increasing drag in other places.


But there are a few reasons to not like GL4, take your pick:

<span style="font-weight: bold">1)</span> The one that concerns me is that many (most? all?) conventional gear oils, both GL4 and GL5, use an "active sulfur" "extreme pressure" additive. The additive works well on steel gear teeth and bearings, but it breaks down over time and turns the oil acidic. (The sulfuric acid is what gives old gear oil that distinctive smell.) Over time, the acid can corrode the brass/bronze parts (synchro rings, thrust washers, gear bushings).

Since GL5 oils have to meet a higher standard for "extreme pressure", they tend to use a lot more of this additive, hence the often-repeated warning not to use GL5 oils in TR diffs & gearboxes. But GL4 oils use the same additive, just less of it, so they can still cause some corrosion. When you see the old brass turn black, the dark color is copper sulphide (metal that has been corroded by the acid).

But it seems that most synthetic gear oils, even ones rated GL5, do not use the "active sulfur" additive and so are safe for "yellow metal" (another name for copper alloys like brass and bronze). I've been using Valvoline full synthetic GL5 in my TR diffs for a long time, and I have never seen any signs of yellow metal corrosion. One thing to look for is the "MT-1" rating. Although it is for heavy-duty non-synchro transmissions (think semi tractors), it requires long-term stability at high temperatures; which the active sulfur additive cannot meet.

<span style="font-weight: bold">2)</span> Back in 1954, there was a ST service bulletin that specifically forbade using "hypoid" oil in Laycock overdrives. No specifics were given in the bulletin, except they had a failure of a unit with hypoid oil and that Laycock said "don't do that". The service manual for the A-type also says not to use "extreme pressure" gear oils as the centrifugal effect of the "planets" may cause the additives to separate and form sludge.

But then around 1960, ST/Leyland suddenly switched to recommending <span style="text-decoration: underline">only </span>GL4 oil. Legend has it this was because they were having an unacceptable rate of returns under warranty due to countershaft thrust washer failures. (Note that GL5 did not exist at that time, so they could not have recommended it even if they had wanted to.)

<span style="font-weight: bold">3)</span> John Esposito has an article on his web site, claiming that he did an experiment with using 90 weight and it caused the OD pressure to go too high. With all due respect to John, in my opinion there must be some other explanation for his observations. Even when Triumph did recommend motor oil, they recommended 50 weight motor oil for temperatures above 70 degrees; and 50 weight motor oil is actually <span style="text-decoration: underline">thicker</span> than 90 weight gear oil. (The two scales are deliberately chosed to be different, so that one can tell from the grade whether it is gear oil or motor oil.) Plus Triumph recommended 90 weight for a long time (much longer than the motor oil), so I simply cannot believe that it causes the kind of instant malfunction that John described.

IMHO, YMMV, offer void where not prohibited, etc.
 

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Ah crap. A bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Like lots of people before me, and after having researched the heck out what fluid to use on my A type overdrive, I am more confused than ever. If I can summarize, this is what my consensus is:
1) 30 W oil was always the way to go - Triumph recommended it, and lots of people have used it for years
2) 20W-50 also does a good job, and may even be a better choice today - originally these multi-weights didn't exist so that's why Triumph didn't originally suggest them
3 There are some people who think GL4 (or is it GL5?) is the best way to go - these are specialty oils produced by Brad Penn or something? But some say maybe they're too slippery and yes they are stinky? I dunno.

So, all in all, I've gotta make a decision. I'm leaning to #2 (20W-50) or maybe #1) - good old 30 w. For example here's 2 old threads I found.
https://www.british-cars.net/triumph-tr3-bbs/gearbox-oil-2002010313142315121.htm
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf/showthread.php?23828-TR3-Transmission-Oil/page2
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf/showthread.php?88993-Best-gearbox-oil-with-overdrive

There are countless other threads out there, some of them going back to 2004.

So, group, what is today's consensus? Thanks in advance,
 
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I had my overdrive transmission overhauled recently at Macy's garage and began using MT90. It leaked from every seam of the OD transmission, so I pulled the OD transmission and sent it back to Macy's. The transmission worked fine but left a 6 inch puddle every night. While the transmission was out, I researched MT90 on several forums and ran across frequent references to leaks using MT90. When Macy's received the transmission they filled it with 30 weight non detergent oil and tested it. They could not find a leak using the 30 weight oil. They tore it down and resealed the transmission anyway. After installing the transmision I put in GL4 gear oil for a day then drained it, after reading the Laycock recommendation, and put in 30 weight non detergent oil. I think MT90 would be fine to use if it doesn't leak from your transmision otherwise 30 weight non detergent oil or the Valvoline 20W-50 VR1. I am currently using the 30 weight non detergent oil without leaks and the transmission works fine but the Valvoline VR1 recommended by Don Elliott sounds interesting and I will probably switch when I change the oil.
 
So, here's my experience.
I believe the PO had installed 85W-90 GL4 gear oil. This performed perfectly and no leaks. It was in there for a few years.
Then I switched over the 30 weight non detergent motor oil. It was great other than the shift from 2nd to 3rd was "notchy" when trans got warm. I litterally had to wait a second or two before it would slip into 3rd gear. No leaks.
Then I switched to Redline MT-90. Shifts great again but, I am getting oil weeping from the seals. Definitely not a 6 inch puddle but, very disappointing considering this was a completely dry trans before.
So, now I am considering the Valvoline 20W-50 VR1.

On the viscosity table/chart 20W-50 motor nearly matches 85W-90 gear oil. Straight 30 weight motor oil is a bit thin (or less viscous). Thus, I expect the 20W-50 to shift great and hope (fingers cross) the seals are not compromised and the leaking stops.

Last, several years ago I stumbled across a survey done by the Buckeye Triumphs club in Ohio. Of 25 member responses:
30% GL4
25% 30W
25% 20W-50
20% MT-90

I'm not sure when the survey was taken however

Bob
 
I ride a bicycle and on those forums they can't even decide how to lube a bike chain. The ultimate answer is 42.
 
I just spoke with Quantumechanics. They do approx 400 trans per year, 1/2 of which are overdrive. They published an article in 2005 suggesting 30w oil. https://www.quantumechanics.com/qm-htm/topic1.htm

But, their point is no matter what you do, it's a compromise. The o/d likes the 30w, the trans not so much. The rebuilt trans's they send out all go out with 30W. They are not fans of the multi grade 10w-30 or 20w-50 (although they have no first hand experience with the 20w-50) because of foaming caused by the detergents (see their article).

But all things considered they plan to change their std recommendation to Redline 90w MT4, based on feedback from over 150 users stating no adverse effects and smoother shifting. The o/d likes it and it definitely shifts smoother. There is one downside: there will be more leakage than straight 30w.
 
I guess I'm just lucky (or did a good job, or something). I run the Redline MT-90 and my gearbox doesn't leak enough to notice.
 
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