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TR2/3/3A TR3A windshield washer???

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Dan_Pasta

Dan_Pasta

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I am in a quandry about the 59 TR3A that I am wrestling with (currently it's winning). On the cowl, near the windshield wipers are two holes. I am assuming that they are for some sort of nozzle for a windshield washer system. Problem is ..... they are only holes (that go into the passenger compartment behind the dash). There were no buttons/levers/pedals or any other obvious operating mechanism. There are no hoses or piping that would lead me to believe these holes ever went anywhere. I can't find any evidence of a water bottle or bracket to attach a water bottle in the engine compartment (can't find any holes to mount a bracket). Looking at my trusty Moss drawings indicates a winshield washer system does exist, but doesn't show any mounting location specifics. My two service manuals are eerily silent on the subject.

Question is ..... were windshield washers standard equipment for a TR of this vintage .... if yes, does anybody have pictures of their system they would share?? If not ...... short of welding up the holes .... what should I do with them??

Another question ....
I paid about $6,000 for the car (including shipping)
I've spent about $2,500 on repair parts so far (just starting)
and about $8,000 on beer for neighbors and friends who stop by to give advice.

Since I'm new at this ..... is this about the proper "spending ratio" .... will it remain stable throughout the restoration process .... will all of those drunks in my garage EVER stop drinking my beer and help me on the car????

Thanks in advance for any help .... and if your in the neigborhood (and are thirsty) don't hesitate to stop in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif
 
I have a TR3B which did have the window washers. I installed new nozzles, though I did find the orignal ones in one of the many boxes of stuff that came with the car. The pump button to operate the washers mounted on the dash between the lower left of the instrument panel and the lower right of the glovebox. I covered over the hole when I recovered the dashboard as I did not have the correct pump. I also do not have a bottle so the system does not work. If it did, I would probably not use it. Installing the nozzles looks better and is easier than closing the holes. I did run the hosing since it easy to do before I installed the instrment panel and heater. As for the beer, when you are working on the TR in an unheated garage (propane space heater only) in the cold and damp Pennsylvania winter you do not get many people stopping to watch or help. Even the wife does not come out to see if it fell off the jack stands and squeezed the last breath out of you. Have fun! Gary
 
The holes are definatly for washer nozzles. I believe The nozzles are available. The system was a jug mounted in the engine bay, with a hose running to a hand operated pump, sometimes right in the dash, sometimes on a bracket under the dash. Then a "t"d hose from the pump to the nozzles. Other than a few small holes, there may not be a lot of evidence of the system.
Every TR2-3 I've seen has, at least, the nozzles. I prersonally would try to fill the holes with a set of nozzles.
Your spending is pretty good. Most people I know (with a TR3) have paid in excess of $10k just to purchase the car then dumped a bunch of cash on top of that.
Tell your friends that advice costs 1 beer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif
 
Hi Dan,

I'm restoring a 55 TR-2 and the car came with an ANCO washer reservoir, pump button, and nozzles. I was able to find 2 complete sets on Ebay and I think I paid less than 20 dollars for each of them, new in the box. From what I can tell this was a dealer installed option and the part number on the reservoir does indeed date back to 1955. Let me know if you need pictures and I'll send them along. Good luck,
 
As another owner of a '59, I'd love to hear about your TR3...what did you get for your 6K, and what did you spend 2.5K on? (and what's left to do?) My car came with nozzles only; they polished up rather nicely.
As for the nectar of the gods, have those imbibers chip in on a keg, or help buy you a keg dispenser...it'll pay for itself over time, and so delicious!

Best, Kevin Browne
'59TR3A #58370 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif
 
I was under the impression that they were dealer installed options. I have one I've never seen anywhere else. It is a vinyl bag that looks like a hot water bottle hanging on the fender. The rubber manual pump is mounted next to my flasher switch on the firewall so I can pump it with my foot. My car is a bit of a hybrid from a DPO who taught auto shop at a voc. school (tr4 motor & tranny, post 60000 tub, pre 60000 hood, etc etc etc.) but it looks like this washer unit has been in place at least since someone painted the engine compartment black.

here is a picture where you can barely see the bottle:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sneddon/71787250/in/set-1091909/

point your mouse at the picture and an outline will appear that shows the bottle.
 
[ QUOTE ]
As another owner of a '59, I'd love to hear about your TR3...what did you get for your 6K, and what did you spend 2.5K on? (and what's left to do?)
Best, Kevin Browne
'59TR3A #58370 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The story of my “restoration project” is kind of funny. I had finally convinced “She Who Must Be Obeyed” that buying/restoring/owning an old car would be a fun and fulfilling thing for the family to do. I did some in depth research and rediscovered my love for the Triumph TR3 and started my quest to purchase one. My idea was to either buy a roadworthy daily driver type, or one needing some minor “freshening up”. My goal was to have a nice car to just drive to local events and have some fun on the sunny weekends. I had found two local TR3s for sale … but with each one, as I drove up with blank check in hand, their new owners were driving off into the sunset. A co-worker suggested I try to find what I was looking for on E-bay …… however I was an E-bay virgin and had no idea how the whole thing worked. After talking to some E-bay experts about bidding strategies, automatic bids, and people jumping in at the last second etc., I decided that I would “practice” using some vehicles I would have absolutely no chance on Gods green earth of winning, so that when that local TR came up for bid, I would win it.
The first TR3 that caught my eye was this sharp looking grey 59 that was up in Chicago …… sooooooo ….. knowing (from the pictures and description) that it was probably worth around 10 to 12K I submitted an automatic bid of 5K secure in the knowledge that even if I were not outbid, the owner would surely have a reserve bid at least a few thousand above my bid. My first two E-bay lessons were ….. 1. I guess for some reason people don’t like grey TR3s too much. And lesson 2. You can actually sell things on E-bay without setting a reserve.
Needless to say the next step in my restoration process was to figure out how to ship a car from Chicago to Florida. As it turns out, the gentleman was moving to Texas, and his wife refused to move a “project” that had been started in late 1975, and hasn’t been worked on since early 1976 ….. (a little unreasonable on her part … but what the heck). The big “catch” was that he had drug his feet in selling the car (thinking he could convince the wife to take it) and was leaving for his new house in Texas in a week …. Lesson 3 …. If an automobile company only has a week to pick up a car, they charge you BIG TIME.
I was very lucky …. The P.O. was very honest in his description of the car, so there have been very VERY few bad surprises, and those that I’ve come across I am convinced the P.O. would or could not have known about. And a number of pleasant surprises …. For instance, the car has not even been turned over since 1975 …. I threw in a new battery …. And the engine spins freely. There is minor rust thru in the trunk area by the wheel wells, and minor rust thru on the floorboard passenger side near the firewall, not enough in either case to warrant buying a new panel and will be repaired by welding in some sheet metal scraps fabricated to fit. The body is drop dead beautiful (for a car this old) some minor dings and scratches but nothing major. As far as rust, there is one spot of surface rust about the size of a quarter below and behind the driver side door. I have honestly seen worse rust on a three to five year old cars. The interior was a mess and has to be completely replaced; all the parts are there but everything needs recovering …. but like I said the PO was perfectly honest about the details.
Most of my expenditures so far have been for rebuild kits for breaks, master and slave cylinders, carbs. I’ve also purchased a kit to recover the seats, and am replacing all of the rubber components (hoses, belts, etc).
 

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Excellent, Dan, that's just the kind of story I was looking for; your car seems well bought! Good Luck with it; this is an excellent forum for finishing her off!

Best, Kevin
#'59TR3A #58370
 
I forgot to mention that I usually try to drive my TR when it is sunny out so I rarely use the wipers and never use the windscreen washers. In fact I have never put any liquid in the bottle since I did my restoration 16 years ago (87,000 miles). I don't drive in muddy fields or on gravel roads. And I don't drive behind someone who may be throwing up mud or road spray. I PASS THEM !!

At one TRA National Concours meet, the judges wanted to dock me a point because the bottle was empty. I told them that it was very original - being empty. That's the way it was when I went to the S-T dealer to pick up the car - brand new.

Don Elliott

https://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/trebor/don3a_big.JPG
Taken when I drove 5225 miles to VTR in Colorado in 2001
 
[ QUOTE ]
At one TRA National Concours meet, the judges wanted to dock me a point because the bottle was empty.....

[/ QUOTE ]I gotta wonder just what that judge wanted to see in that bottle? Genuine "Midlands" water? Did he/she also check for appropriate mixture of Smiths Bluecol in the cooling system? Wakefield Castrol Brake Fluid (although perhaps Girling Crimson would've been ok) in the master reservoir and Castrolite or Duckham's in the crankcase? Can one even find Castrolease Brake Cable Grease nowadays? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
...TR's left the factory with the chromed nozzles installed. I paid $15.00 for the dealer installed option...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Don. Like Dan, mine has the nozzles but no bottle or evidence of one having been mounted. Sounds like that could be original/correct for me.

If one really wanted the bottle & plunger then perhaps a set sourced from a TR4 (brand "Trafalgar") would be close and fairly easy to find.
 
I am with DAn about how little they get used. My TR3 had the nozzles and nothing else. At the time I was restoring mine in 1981 I was also sending a Lada to the junk yard. So I took the bottle and integrated pump from it (fuid and all) and put it under the bonnet of the TR3. 25 years later I still have that Russian washer fluid in the British car. Just this fall I was thinking of removing the bottle so the engine bay would look better.
 
Hi Dan,

Welcome to a brave new world. I'm just down the street from you...well, at least I live in Florida--I'm in North Palm Beach. Maybe I'll take a road trip up there someday (I can't drink Miller Lite).

I bought my 1960 TR3A about three months ago and figured I'd put about a grand into it over the next year or so (laugh). After I had the car for a week or so, it really started to burn/use quite a bit of oil; about a quart to drive up to Stuart (maybe 30 miles). So I decided to pull the engine a do a rebuild. I fired up Excel and did about three spread sheets to "get a handle" on the costs involved. I did a low, medium and I'm-out-of-my-mind scenario, and figured it would take about three weeks to do (real big laugh). Just a word of advice, take your best case scenario and multiply it by four!

Once I got the engine apart I found: broken piston rings on #1 and #3, bad small rod end on #1 and #4, valve seats on the exhaust you could drive a truck through, and valve guides that didn't. Unfortunately, I have the kind of personality that takes things to the Nth degree. That means I replaced virtually everything on, or in, the engine. The crank, rods, pistons, flywheel and clutch were balanced. New pistons and liners. New cam, lifters, rocker shaft, rocker arms, valves, springs and retainers. Oh heck, fuel pump, fuel lines, distributor, oil pump...are you getting the picture? I was totally out of control, and there was no way to stop me, believe me, people tried!

Once I had the front of the car off and the engine out, I decided this would be a great time to "freshen up" the suspension. Bushings, trunions, upper ball joints, tie rods and ends, springs, shocks, steering box rebuild, idler arm...again, out of control.

You would think a 45 year old car would be in better condition!!??

And then, there's the interior. Seat frames and tracks, seat kit (front & back), carpet, side panels, tonneau...somebody stop me!

I guess the reason for this rambling is, you can spend as much money as you want. It is difficult (for me, at least) to draw the line. The deeper I got into the restoration, the more I found that needed to be done. And I didn't want to take the front of the car apart again.

I figured I would spend maybe three grand, what I ended up spending is closer to twelve! Granted, I really didn't have to go that far, but like I said, that's part of my personality disorder -- or at least one of them.

Another word of caution, you can get just about ANY part for these cars out there between the Big Three (Moss, Victoria British, The Roadster Factory), but a lot of it is crap. Another thing is, and I've ranted about this in the forum before, you will get 10 different opinions from 10 different sources, so it's difficult (again, maybe it's just me) to make an educated decision. I know I've made quite a few mistakes that had to be rectified (that means spending more money), but I've also learned a whole boatload of valuable lessons during this project.

After all the time and money I've spent, do I regret the decision?

Not in the least. I had a ball doing it, meeting new people and learning new things (there are some GREAT people that prowl this forum)! And I have a beautiful TR3 to cruise down A1A.

Does it get any better than that?
 
...on the other hand, don't let the $12K that Mark put in his make you rethink your purchase. You appear to have got a very good deal on the initial purchase and these cars can often be made reliable and enjoyed for many miles and years w/o the total rebuild ('to the Nth degree').

As for parts quality -- some of it is amazingly good and some of it isn't, but in my experience both Moss and TRF have stood behind their products and really made an effort to do right by me when problems occur. But then I may be more tolerant as I had my first TR3 in the early 70s when the 'Big 3' didn't exist (Moss existed but I think mainly MG) and parts availability even from my local Triumph dealer was zip.
 
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