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TR2/3/3A TR3 Windshield Stanchion Guide Plates?

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bmurphy7369

bmurphy7369

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Hello to all,

I have a friend in Virginia who is restoring his 1961 TR3A with the bolt-on (post- TS60000) stanchions. He recently removed his windshield and realised that the car was missing the stanchion guide plates and asked if I might have a set. I do not currently, but I referred him to BCF and told him it would be nice to have him as a member, and also let him know how helpful our members have always been to me.
He explained to me that the Dzus plates he thought would work, with minor modification and act as a spacer if he couldn't find the bolt-on types. I think that sounds correct, but I told him you TR owners would be the ones to talk to about this. If anyone has a set he has been searching high and low for a while and would be thankful for a lead on where to purchase them. He doesn't want to paint the car and mount the windshield without them (I understand they protect the paint as well as provide the proper spacing for the stanchions).
I hope somebody has an idea as to where a set of these can be found, I checked Moss and the usual sources and it looks like they aren't available any longer, or are not yet reproduced by anyone.
Hope you all are enjoying the top-down summer days! Thanks in advance for any ideas on where he might find a set of these parts for his car....

Best Regards,
Brian /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif
 
The post 60,000 cars do not have the stanchion guide plates. The windscreen is just screwed onto the body valence. If he has the earlier type of stanchions, then to put the guide plates on would require some body work. Oval holes would have to be made, and new screw holes for the plates would have to be put in. It would be easier to get the later style stanchions.

I was confronted with this same problem, as the body I'm putting on my car is a post 60,000, and all my parts are pre- 60,000. I thought about adapting the earlier stanchions...for about three minutes. I wound up getting a set of the later style from E-Bay.
 
Hello Art,


Sorry to have such a bad memory on this subject. I have only had the TR3A's prior to the TS60001 change and it has been a long while since I sold both of those. To clarify, if his car has guide plates on the body valence, then his windshield posts (which is what I am calling stanchions I believe) can only be the Dzus-mount type (unless someone has modified previously)? I must have been under the impression that the post-TS60000 cars had the mount plates, but no longer used the Dzus fasteners... I thought that under the mounting (guide) plates there were spacers or washers similar to the Tenons between the windshield posts and windshield frame, which if I remember were aluminum/unfinished and acted as spacers/support, which is what I assumed he was needing for under the guide plates.... had a long day. Apparently, if I am now understanding this post-TS60000 setup, as long as his stancions (vertical windshield frame posts?) were screwed/bolted directly to the car, then he already has all of the correct parts? (Windshield totally assembled bolts straight through the holes on the painted valence with no gasket, guide plate, or any other spacing or mounting parts...?)

Conversely, if his car has the guide plates on the valence then he has the pre-TS60001 setup as your car does? To return the car (TS75xxx) to its original setup would mean filling the stanchion mounting holes on the valence and finding a set of bolt on stanchions, which require no on-body mounting mechanisms?


Sorry for the confusing questions, and thank you for the quick and informative reply!
 
I vaguely recall a prior discussion on this on another site... many were sure the post-60K stanchions bolted directly to the body, many others were equally sure they used plates underneath.

Is it possible they are all right? (i.e. some cars were produced one way others the other... or perhaps the change point was not 60K).
 
Geo, how have you been?
I am beginning to wonder the same thing... My friend who has the TR3A in question has applied for membership. He has pictures of some stanchion guides that sounds like they are for bolt-on applications. As we know, anything is possible in the LBC world. He should be able to post soon, and hopefully he can post a picture of the stanchion guides he has been told his car was originally equipped with... they have no Dzus wires and apparently go in behind the stanchion and are held in place with the body bolts. His stanchions are hollow on the inside which would seem to indicate that there was originally something in place there, if nothing more than a sort of supporting block with holes for the mounting bolts to slip through. I am hoping that anyone with a TR3B (or a late TR3A near the TS75000 range) that has had their windshield off during restoration or for detailing may remember what they encountered on their car.
I am with you on this, there is probably more than one possibility... I remember reading years ago a book by Graham Robson (sp?) titled "The Triumph TR's", I believe, and the bolt-on windshield change at the end of the TR3 run seems very familiar, but I no longer have a copy of the book. It seems like the author went into some detail on this subject. Thanks for the reply, Geo, that makes sense and would explain alot.
Brian
 
Ok, this is the Stanchion Guide plate that is possibly for the bolt-on application.... I tried to insert a photo, but had trouble with my photo service. This does look different than the Dzus plates I remember, just wondering if it looks like anything anyone else has seen on a post-TS60000 TR3A.... It appears to be more a filler plate than a slide on Dzus-mount plate, but I'll let the experts figure this one out..... Here is a link to the photo:

Late TR3A Bolt-on windscreen Stanchions??


Thank you all, you have been a huge help with this question already.
 
I could NOT open your link! I DO have an extra set of Windscreen Stanchion guide plates for a PRE Ts 6000 Tr.
But Not for Post Ts 6000
sorry.
 
Thanks Kerry,

I'll try that link as a photo link, hope this works. The owner of the '61 3A should be able to post tomorrow or whenever he is approved for membership. He is watching the thread and is amazed at the input.... My guess is that these are the same part with the banjo mounting wires removed, but I hate to guess on this one. Moss's European site seems to say "post-TS60000 Bolt - Stanchion through guide plate to frame" which is more than I have seen in any other catalog so far. One more try at the link, maybe just copy and paste in a new browser window:

https://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brian_in2003/detail?.dir=/e594re2&.dnm=185ascd.jpg&.src=ph

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif
 
Okay I dug out a photo of mine (pre-60000) to compare to your picture. The one you show (2nd pic) is not a pre-60K with the dzus removed but something else entirely.

It appears to be a piece that sandwiches in between the stanchion and the body and held by the thru-bolts that secure the windscreen.

Just the sort of thing the factory would have used if thay had to use up the old style stanchions before going to ones that were thick enough to mount directly to the body.

Mine --

windscreen%20plate.JPG


Your pic --

windscreen%20plate2.JPG
 
What I have are what Geo Posted pics of. The stanchions My car uses have the dzus type screws to hold the stanchions to the stanchion guide plate. This guide plate bolts directly onto the bulkhead. The Windscreen stanchions then attach to the guide plate via the dzus fastners. It apears to me that the guide plates Posted by bmurphy7369 should be the correct ones for a post Ts6000. {as geo stated, it is possible that the factory assembled with what was on hand at the time} "Hollow on the inside" are not the dzus style stanchions {Or early style} Both sets of early dzus style stanchions I have are SOLID chrome plated brass. I will post pics if need be later in the week.
Heading out camping in the morning Won`t be back till late sunday.
Kerry
 
Geo Hahn said:
Is it possible they are all right? (i.e. some cars were produced one way others the other...
Click to expand...

I'm beginning to think that is the case. I've only had one post-60K car (which I bought as a wreck and parted out). As I recall, it had bolts, and guide plates, and the stanchions looked identical to the earlier stanchions.

What we need now is a photo of the stanchions without the gap for the guide plate.

BTW, my SPC has listings for at least 5 different windscreen assemblies; and I didn't find any listings for the plates under the 'bolt' assemblies. It's kind of faded and hard to read tho (plus my fiancee was pestering me for attention), so I didn't have time to sort it all out.
 
bmurphy7369 said:
I remember reading years ago a book by Graham Robson (sp?) titled "The Triumph TR's", I believe, and the bolt-on windshield change at the end of the TR3 run seems very familiar
Click to expand...

Finally found my copy of Robson's book. The only mention I can find is "The windscreen became mounted by proper bolts, ...", nothing about the plate underneath.

Looking at my factory Spare Parts Catalogue (4th edition, P/N 501653/USA, apparently reprinted by VTR many years ago), I see 4 different "Windscreen Assembly Complete ... bolt attachments" listed.

803760, 804524 and 902005 are listed as alternatives to each other, implying that they were all fitted to the same range of cars (803760 and 804524 are partially aluminum, only available as special order options). The stanchions listed for 902005 and 804524 specify "complete with tenon plate", which I would guess is the part with only two holes that Brian has posted.

Hoewver, the 4th bolt-on windscreen assembly, 902347, appears to be a later item (although no cross-over is given), and it's stanchions (which have different part numbers) do not mention the "tenon plate".

So, from all that, I infer that everyone is right, post-60K cars both had guide (tenon) plates on the body, and did not have tenon plates on the body. Most likely the earlier post-60K cars had the tenon plate, but there may have been some overlap.
 
Just as a point of interest, Below is an attachment of four different sets of stanchions that I have. The top one is the only one that is a dzus fastener type. The other three are the screw in type. There are other subtle differences besides what's readily apparent. The screw hole location for the little plate shown in the bottom pic is not the same as in some of the other pieces. Also, the shape of that piece is differnet. And this is all from a couple of sets I bought off of e-bay, as I needed the later style for the body I'm putting on. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
I think the mystery here is what Geo had originally suggested. The factory apparently made several styles of stanchions, though looking for parts as I am used to doing (Moss, Vic. British, TRF, ebay) would lead one to believe that only two types were made for the TR3/3A.
I just got an email from RB, my friend who is now a BCF member and he found another set he had but had forgotten about. The set is the direct bolt on type, with recessed holes that are "correct" for the late TR3A. The picture I posted, as someone suggested, Geo I think, of the guide plates, must be another style, using the old Dzus stanchions, with these guides to fill in the hole where the Dzus guide plates would have been fixed.
I think that new member RB will be posting the pictures of the new set he ran across soon, he has introduced himself in the new member forum already. If not, I will attempt again to insert the photos he emailed to me. His car is TS75894L, a 1961, which I think is an extremely late 3A.. forget the last 3A VIN.. I'll try to insert the photos now, if not I hope someone can explain to me how to do this easily!..
 
Aha ! So clearly (IMO) the second down stanchion is the kind that takes a bolt and tenon plate (560627/8); while the 3rd and 4th down are the kind that take a bolt and no tenon plate (804511/2).

Proof enough for me ... someone give Geo a cigar !
 
Brian, only the 3rd photo opens for me. I note it's on a different server than the first two ... Could f3.yahoofs.com be available only to members or something ?
 
Good pics of the various stanchions, I never would have guessed there were so many variations.

I think (as Poirot would say) 'The mystery she is sol-ved'.
 
I think Brian needs a Photobucket account, I couldnt get ANY of those links he posted to work for me {But then again I`m no P.C. genius either} *SMILE*
AND ...... Don`t ask about my camping odeal, cause that just what it turned into ..... an ordeal. One lousy puff O wind and $900.00 worth of awning ....... ADIOS!!!!
Get this ...... only mine, Not the one next to me nor the one across from me or the one in back of me, JUST MINE!!! PFFFFFFFFFFFFFTT.
 
Pending approval, I think that I was able to post the photos of the Stanchions for the later TR3A's. So many changes! I created an album in the members' rides section of the last three (?) variations of the bolt-on sets, maybe just the last two bolt-on Stanchions and a Dzus-mount set. Once Mickey has the time to approve the photos we should all be able to view the album of posts/stanchions that Geo was wise enough to surmise (deduce that there were many styles) that the factory varied the sets based on what parts were on hand, thrifty as they were. I hope that the pictures will be of help to many, especially those of us planning a Concours restoration. This has been a great topic, the one thing that stands out to me on this subject is that there are few TR3 afficianados that knew of this factory run of many Stanchion styles toward the end of the TR3A's production. Concours judging may have to re-write the book on this area.
Thanks to all in helping sort this out, very interesting bit of TR3 history indeed.
I'll link the pictures when they are approved, but I think Geo should have the dibs on the reproduction products!

Brian
 
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