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TR2/3/3A TR3 Fluids To Use?

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CCURTISS

CCURTISS

Jedi Hopeful
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After my transmission swap, spin on oil filter adapter addition and a new rear pinion seal I am going to change all of the fluids in my TR3 and I am looking for recommendations on weight and type for the following:

Engine -
Trans -
Rear Diff -

I have hear 75-90 for the trans and rear and I have hear something about type 4 vs. 5.

Thanks,
 
My experience is that engines do not like a dramatic change in their lubricants. That said, you need to tell us more.

Were the engine, trans and diff re-built and need a "break-in" period?

Do you have an O/D transmission?

The answers will determine the advice that would be offered.

Warning: engine oil has been heavily discussed onthis forum. Many of the beneficial additives that were once found in motor oil have been discontinued out of environmental concern.

You should begin with a general search on this site for "engine oil" or similar terms.

Good luck,

FJA
 
Curt,
Opinions on this topic vary widely and as Frank notes, there have been lots of heated discussions.

I drove my 58 (registered as a 59) TR3A to work most days for over 20 years (estimated 200,000 miles), and this combination worked very well for me :

Engine : Valvoline 20W50 SYNpower (full synthetic)
Trans : Valvoline 20W50 Racing oil (conventional, recently relabeled "Not Street Legal")
Diff : Valvoline 75W90 SYNpower gear oil (full synthetic)

I believe Redline MT90 (which is a full synthetic) is also suitable for the gearbox, but don't have enough miles on it to recommend it. Without OD, IMO the choices are wider but I would stick with a full synthetic rated for manual transmission use (MT-1) (like the SYNpower or Redline MTL).

The GL4 vs GL5 discussion focuses on an "extreme pressure" additive that is typically found in both GL4 and GL5; but most conventional GL5 oils have a lot more of it than conventional GL4 oils. This additive can cause the brass thrust washers used in Triumph differentials to erode over time. This is the same additive that gives used gear oil that distintive smell : as the additive breaks down it forms sulfur compounds that are both very smelly and harmful to copper alloys. However, as I understand it, synthetic oils have a higher film strength to begin with and so require much less of the additive. At any rate, the diff thrust washers in TS39781LO were already pretty bad when I got the car in 1982 and never seemed to get any worse in all those hard miles using the GL5 synthetic.

Also worth noting that there is nothing in the GL4 standard that limits how much of the additive can be present; in fact it's possible to formulate a conventional oil that meets both GL4 and GL5 specifications (but AFAIK it's no longer marked that way).
 
I should have added a bit more info.

The rear diff is not rebuilt, it is original and has 80k mile on it, just replacing the seal.

- The clymer books say to use EP SAE 90 (not sure what EP is).

The engine is original and I have no idea what oil the previous owner used in it but the engine is also original 90k or so.

- The clymer books say to use SAE 40. Not sure what today's equivalents are for this.

The trans is NOT an overdrive, I am putting in a freshly rebuilt TR4 trans so that I can get syncro 1st gear.

- I have heard recommendations of a 75W90 in the trans and the old clymer books says to use SAE 50. Moss advertises Red Line 75W90 NS
 
Here's what I use on my '59 '3: For the rear end, Sta-Lube Hypoid SAE 85W90 Gear Oil, API/GL4. I buy this at large, independent auto parts stores. PepBoys, et al. don't carry it. Sta-Lube also makes a nice pump device to get to the rear end. Think I use the same thing in the gearbox. For engine oil, Pennzoil or Castrol 10W-40, whichever is cheaper at the time. I also add in a small bottle of STP Oil treatment. Don't forget to lube your chassis! Post some pix of your car sometime!
 
CCURTISS said:
- The clymer books say to use EP SAE 90 (not sure what EP is).
Click to expand...
EP stands for Extreme Pressure; lubricant of that type is critical for most differential ring-and-pinion sets.

CCURTISS said:
The engine is original and I have no idea what oil the previous owner used in it but the engine is also original 90k or so.

- The clymer books say to use SAE 40. Not sure what today's equivalents are for this.
Click to expand...
Those wonderful old Clymer manuals date to a time before multi-grade oils were common. Typical spring or fall temp variations might suggest a modern 10W-40, while generally hotter summers would suggest a modern 20W-50. While I note "modern," do keep in mind the current debate about insufficient levels of ZDDP supposedly needed to keep flat-tappet engines happy. (I've read a lot about this but am still not clear as to whether the current, lower levels of ZDDP will mean imminent destruction of your tappets or if this might turn out to be a lot like the "must use lead supplement or else!" situation.)

CCURTISS said:
The trans is NOT an overdrive, I am putting in a freshly rebuilt TR4 trans so that I can get syncro 1st gear.

- I have heard recommendations of a 75W90 in the trans and the old clymer books says to use SAE 50. Moss advertises Red Line 75W90 NS
Click to expand...
The SAE 50 weight referred to by Clymer refers to an Engine oil weight; just so we're clear on that, it's roughly equivalent in viscosity to a 90 weight gear oil. Either likely will be fine in the gearbox, although the differential definitely needs the EP gear oil!
 
Thanks to all for the information.

The car belonged to my wife's uncle since it was new and now it is time for us to do some work. I have installed a new fuel tank, new TR4 trans conversion is going in now, all new brakes, new carpet and my new minilite wheels just arrived with soon to be new rubber. The leather is in fair shape so I am getting ready to re-dye it with a Leatherique dye kit.

Here is a link to some picture as it was a few months ago.

https://curtiss.biz/gallery/tr3

DSC01344.sized.jpg
 
Nice looking car! Keep us apprised....
 
prb51 said:
Curtiss,
Nice car, I like the black/cream combo.
What's the build number?
Click to expand...

It is TS17355. It is a little strange because it has 10 inch rear drums which were difficult to find shoes for. I had to do a lot of sanding to get the shoes to fit.
 
<span style="font-weight: bold">SWEET RIDE!</span> (He says, suddenly feeling very :cryin: as he watches TS71909L leave his driveway for the last time, atop a trailer on its way to a new caretaker in PA! It's ok, though; at least for the time being, I've still got all my Heralds and such...and one other TR3A, just in case I hit the Lottery and can afford to restore it....)
 
Curt,
That is a beautiful car. It is also great to have a car that has been in the family from new.
For info. I use EP 80/90 in my rear axle (and I am about to change the pinion seal this weekend), I use 20/50 in my engine (currently Castrol Classic) and I have EP 80/90 in my overdrive gearbox (but I think this is wrong with overdrive and that I should have 20/50 in there).
Nick
 
CCURTISS said:
- The clymer books say to use EP SAE 90 (not sure what EP is).
Click to expand...
Basically means gear oil, which would be GL4 then. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]- The clymer books say to use SAE 40.[/QUOTE]SAE 40 would be "straight weight" engine oil. Nearest 'modern' equivalent is somewhere between 10W40 and 20W50. The first number indicates (roughly) the equivalent straight-weight performance at 0C (IOW, 10W40 acts like 10 weight oil at freezing); while the second number indicates performance at 100C (IOW, 10W40 acts like 40 weight oil at 212F).

Here's a scan of the page from the factory owner's manual.

(For those who are waiting for a scan of the whole thing; Sorry, I was sick most of this week and didn't have time to do it.)

PS if you're interested in learning more about what the alphabet soup of acronyms and numbers mean, check out
https://yarchive.net/car/oil_facts1_2.html
I wouldn't believe any of the actual numbers posted there (due to age), but the discussion is still quite valid.
 
Curtiss,'
My '56 has the 10 inch rear brakes also(TS14502L) and that's correct for the year/model. They changed to the 9 in' rears later on.
I'm using 20/50 motor, and GL4 in the tranny and rear end. I use 30 weight in the dashpots summer and auto tranny fluid winter. Also Penrite steering box fluid rather than a 90 weight as it doesn't leak out.
 
Thanks for all of the input!

I was able to find some GL4 gear oil at NAPA by the gallon and I am going to use Castrol 20/50 in the engine.
 
Hi Curt,

When you get those Minilites on, you might consider fitting the ally stoneguards again to the rear guards, as it would be a pity to get stonechips on such a lovely car.

Mind you the repros need a bit of wrangling to get a decent fit.

Regards,

Viv
 
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