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TR2/3/3A Tr3 feels floatie

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sp53

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Hi all before we went on vacation, I took the 61 tr3 out for its first real drive. The engine sounded great and the transmission was also excellent (I bought the trans for 75.00 from an older gent who had it in an old shop for thirty 30 years). Anyways the part I did not like was the ride. The car felt floatie and it steered like it was on rails in a bad way. The floating could be that the car body was off the frame and needs to settle in, I do not know. The steering is most likely not toed correct and when I turn right it drags the wheel some. It drives nice and straight, but I must say, I was disappointed how it drove. I perhaps expected too much. I have been working on this car for 20 years on and off.
Steve
 
Could all be in the alignment. Extremely out of adjustment toe can cause very strange handling characteristics.
Try the old "String trick"
Jack up the front end and make a line around both tires in about the middle of the tread using some chalk or a paint pen. (Hold the chalk still while you spin the tire to get an even line)
Now set the car back down and jounce it a few times.
Straighten the wheels
Now take a piece of string and run it in front of the tires as high as you can under the frame from the mark on one tire to the mark on the other and mark the string.
Now do the same behind the wheel. If the toe is set right the marks should line up.
To much toe in and the marks in front of the tires will be closer than behind, to much to out and the marks in front will be further apart in front.
Adjust your tie rods equally on both sides till the measurement front and back are the same.
Now take 'er for a spin. I bet it will be a world better!
 
Silent-blocs, shocks, air pressure?
 
Check to see if your steering rack is fastened tightly to the frame. I know it sounds crazy but I drove my Spitfire 3,000 miles and autocrossed it with only 1 of the 2 fasteners somewhat tight, holding it in place :eeek:
 
I agree with Banjo except that even a small amount of "toe out" can cause dangerous handling conditions. Care with the stick will straighten handling out considerably but it won't match (at least in my experience) a good old fashioned alignment. I don't trust the laser-computer printout type as the technician usually doesn't know anything beyond how to run the machine. Knowledgeable front end specialists are a dying breed. Don't know of an alternative in my area when my guy retires. Perhaps I'll go back to the stick. Tom
 
TR3 doesn't have a rack (except owner upgrade) but does have lots of issues with steering box, silent blocks, idler arms etc. which, of course, should be checked along with alignment.
Tom
 
You got it Tom. I meant to put that the "String Trick" should only be to get you by till you get a proper alignment, But in reality, if done correctly it is amazingly accurate. the toe adjustment bar that Moss sells is very effective as well.
And, like you said, TR3s are susceptible to worn steering parts. I have driven some pretty horrid TR3, bur I have also driven some excellent ones. Personally I feel that a TR3 with a properly adjusted and maintained original steering system cannot be made any better by installing a rack "upgrade".
I take exception to the laser alignment remark. Most technicians I know understand alignments rather well, and how all the adjustments effect the car. but I would stay away from the chain stores, where the alignment guy is just outta high school. Find yourself a reputable shop. Preferably a well respected independent. they live on their reputation.
 
Banjo said:
Personally I feel that a TR3 with a properly adjusted and maintained original steering system cannot be made any better by installing a rack "upgrade".
Click to expand...
I heartily agree, as I know Randall does as well!


Banjo said:
I take exception to the laser alignment remark. Most technicians I know understand alignments rather well, and how all the adjustments effect the car. but I would stay away from the chain stores, where the alignment guy is just outta high school. Find yourself a reputable shop. Preferably a well respected independent. they live on their reputation.
Click to expand...
Again, I agree, especially with "well respected independent"! The equipment is great if someone knows how to use it, how to adjust (whatever) on a given car...AND what the specs are. You might have to provide those specs from a Factory Workshop Manual unless said shop has done early TRs previously!
 
I mostly agree with everything above. But I claim that a little careful work with a board made up for the purpose (so it can reach up behind the wheel to the centerline) can match pretty much any system for accuracy. The nice thing about a "laser" system <span style="font-style: italic">if properly operated</span> is that it will also measure several other angles that, while not adjustable, can indicate problems that wouldn't necessarily show up otherwise.

And adding just a bit of toe-in (1/8" difference measured rear centerline to front centerline) can make the car feel more stable on rutted or seamed roads.

Tire inflation also makes a big difference, and it seems most tire shops don't want to put enough air in the tires. IMO modern freeway driving counts as "hard and fast" by 1955 standards, so the "book" inflation for radial tires would be 27 psi front and 31 psi rear. I actually prefer more than that, but it depends on tires and so on (and mine are nowhere near stock). Anyway, my point is that it might be worth trying some different pressure settings. I generally start at the "max inflation" shown on the tire, and then back off if the ride seems too harsh or jittery. Experiment with care, though, as having the inflation on the high side can also affect handling.
 
Banjo,
My intent was not to discredit the modern alignment systems (quite necessary for modern steering and suspensions) but rather the technicians who have never seen a steering box or an idler arm and tend to do a poor job on old cars. The key is a competent technician, with or without a fancy machine (your stick, for example)
Tom
 
Thanks all for your comments. We just got back from driving highway one on the coast of California (drove the Camry) I know it was a sin, but we live in Washington and that is a long hop for winter. Anyways, one day I hope to get the TR3 down that way. I will have to try better on my alignment skills. I did not use the pen or knife trick when spinning the tier to establish a center line. The tires had a center line in the tread pattern and I measured off that. I remember Randall and Banjo commenting in the past to put that scribe line on the tire, but I thought it would be enough with the groove. I did take an aluminum extension ladder split that in half and put a section on both sides to see how straight everything looks for the front and back to be parallel. The suspension is completely new and the car did not pull, but it might have made a slight squealing sound when turning. Anyway I will try the line method with the string and see where I am at. Again everyone thanks for commenting.
Steve
 
Best of luck, Steve.... I'm watching your thread to see what you come up with...
 
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