• Hi Guest!
    You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.

    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

TR2/3/3A Tr3 and overdrive - opinions please

prb51

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
I know it's tough to get an opinion on this forum but I thought I'd ask anyway.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gifMy 56 does not have the OD tranny, the car runs well at speed and does so rather effortlessly. I would opt for the OD as high speed cruising is something I have to do to get anywhere but the Brit electrical reputation holds me back. Pro's and con's from the field if you please. Anyone done the 5 speed conversion? Thanks Pat
 
I have overdrive on my '60, but alas -- it has never worked since I got the car. The guy who restored it (previous owner) never hooked it up. I hooked it up and it still doesn't work. I never got the time to troubleshoot it.

It would be nice to have working, but I don't think it really makes much difference. At 60MPH I'm at 3000RPMs, and in my '69 Corvette I'm at 2800 or so...so I'm used to riding up high on the highway.

Thankfully, my normal long-haul car (02 Corvette) pulls around 1600RPMs (and 32MPG) at 65.
 
Hello PRB51,
an overdrive gearbox is much nicer to use than the non overdrive gearbox and they are reliable. The reliability myths you may hear about are from poor maintenance or just simple old and worn out components compounded by occasional use and long periods of inactivity.
The lower engine revolutions in overdrive top is only one benefit, the other is the bonus of a very quick up shift when overtaking particularly in third to overdrive third (Which is about the same ratio as direct fourth).
My Triumph 2000 sedan does about 75mph in direct third and over 90mph in overdrive third and virtually no lag in the change. This makes it a much better option than a five speed gearbox.

Alec
 
Neither of mine have OD but I certainly wouldn't let electrical reliability concerns stop me from getting one if I felt the need of one. Rather it is just not worth it to me to replace good gearboxes to get the RPM drop.

Yes, Arizona is a state where you almost have to get on an Interstate with a 75 mph speed limit to get out of town but I only take about 2 or 3 500+ mile trips each year so most of my driving is below 60 mph where the OD advantage is not as great.

I think it depends how you drive, where you drive.
 
Something I have not seen discussed here is the use of the high speed gearset that the latter 6 used, it will retrofit all the way back to the tr2, and can still be bought....has anybody tried it ??? You would not need OD with this set-up.
MD(mad dog)
 
MD, The later 6 gearbox is a simple 'bolt on' conversion without any mods? Another gear(OD or 5spd) would be practical as I live adjacent to Hwy 93 and often drive to the Phoenix area (60 plus miles). Save some wear and tear on the 4 banger.
 
I've put in an "A" type overdrive in my TR-6 and the results are impressive. I'd agree that if you get a newly rebuilt unit, you should have little problem with it. I've had mine in since 96 and have put 35K on the tranny with no problems.

Mark
 
Pat, I finally installed the J-Type overdrive on my TR6 and am tickled pink with the way it works. I looked into the 5-speed conversion but the only people doing this were in New Zealand. Not real comfortable with service. The overdrive that I had installed on my tranny required that I send it to Quantum. I didn't have the ability or desire to install it myself. The first one failed right out the gate. He made it good, of course, and has worked ever since. The only thing "electric" is the solenoid. The J overdrive is the same exact one on older Volvos. M-46 I believe.

Bill
 
I'd encourage you to look at an A-type OD for your car. It's a relatively simple installation, as compared to a J-type or other options. And, a "correct" OD will add to the car's value, while an "incorrect" one might detract.

Yes, with an A-type you still need to change the main shaft in the gearbox, remove the tail piece and put on an adapater plate. The top of the gearbox will need to be drilled and tapped for the switches. A different speedometer cable will be needed, too, I believe.

But, to fit up a J-type, you need to rig a rear mount, possibly have some welding done on the frame. The fit around the exhaust pipes and frame gets pretty tight, but it's possible if you don't mind the modifications.

If you only want overdrive on top gear, you only need one switch (which will actually enable it in 3rd & 4th gears). The other switch is only necessary to use it on 2nd gear.

Look closely at the gear ratios and how the A-type provides, effectively, a 7 speed gearbox. It's actually pretty well thought out and effective. I wouldn't bother with changing gears in the gearbox. I'd suggest instead to look at the differential crown wheel & pinion, if you need "longer legs" or, conversely, faster acceleration. A 3.7:1 ratio was standard in there. Many cars had an optional 4.1:1, though, and it's still available. The 4.1 does accelerate faster, but the car will be revving higher on the freeway, which can be offset by the overdrive.

Less common, but available, are 3.45:1 and 4.5:1 ratios. The first making the car pretty slow off the line, but certainly able to cruise comfortably all day at 70 mph. The latter would get you to 60 very quickly.

By the way, there were at least two versions of A-type. One has a larger accumulator piston and bangs into action faster. The A-type generally provides 22% reduction. The J-type provides 25% reduction, in the TR version. It's possible to tell by looking at the brass plate riveted on the "top" side of the OD. The first two digits of the model number indicate the amount of reduction, such as 22xxx or 25xxxx. Of course, this assumes someone hasn't rebuilt it to a different configuration during its lifetime. It's possible to do so. As much as 28% reduction is possible.

There were also non-TR A-type ODs. These often do not have a rear mount in the same configuration needed by TRs. And, the "vertical" actuating solenoid was unique to the TR version of the A-type. Non-TR A-type ODs have a horizontally mounted solenoid.

With stock installation, there really isn't that much electrical involved in an overdrive. You have the operating switch in the cockpit, one or two inhibitor switches (which are the same as the backup light swithches used on later TRs), a relay (again, a common Lucas item used elsewhere) and the actuating solenoid. The latter is the most vulnerable, to debris thrown up under the car, or to incorrect adjustment.

There are some aftermarket items that add a little complexity, such as the "black box" overdrive controller offered by Revington TR, a neat item that makes the OD operate more like a 7 speed gearbox. And, the momentary switch to actuate my TR4's OD is mounted in the car's shift knob, as a push button instead of the stock lever on the steering column. That also means a little added wiring.

If the OD is being used with a normal to mildly perfomance boosted motor, is maintained and adjusted properly, and is used in a normal manner, it should last a long time and give little trouble.

If you do decide to install an overdrive, I'd encourage you to consider having the gearbox gone through thoroughly at the same time. Since the gearbox and the OD share oil, one can contaminate the other. If the gearbox has a lot of filings in it from worn parts, they will get into the OD and likely do some damage. Vice versa, the OD should be clean and fresh before being bolted up to a rebuilt gearbox.

Cheers!

Alan
 
I own a Spitfire with J-type OD but alas the car is not on the road (not OD related). The universal opinion of owners I have spoken to is that the OD is a great improvement. No one has mentioned reliability problems. This may be because when it fails the OD is inop but the tranny still works. One club member recently added an OD in his TR3 and is well pleased. He says that if he had it to do over he would consider the Toyota 5-speed mentioned by Geo Hahn.
 
Guys, Thanks for the info, I'll def be getting something to reduce the rpm's. Did a round trip Phoenix run today with 90% of the journey hwy @ 65/75 mph. Tr ran great but a reduction in rpm would be very nice. It's amazing how a car that occasionally shakes/rattles a bit under 50 smooths out and runs so steady at 70.
 
Did you add on a Volvo j-type and if so where did you send it? I have a j-type I pulled out of a 79 240 Volvo and looking for someone to convert it.
 
The overdrive you have is surely the m-46, also known as the J-type - both are or should be the same Laycock deNomanville electric (solenoid) overdrives. John Esposito at Quantum Mechanics (on the web) added one onto my stock TR6 4-speed. Call him and ask what he can do for you. Or, find the old tech listings on BuckeyeTriumph website that give a great breakdown on this unit, you might could do the work yourself. The tech articles are stored somewhere on the web, do a search on this forum and you will find a listing for these hidden sites posted here in recent months.
Lotsa pictures....

I think you are on the right track.

Bill
 
I replaced my TR3 tranny with a TR6 tranny (synchro in first gear) complete with A overdrive about 5 years ago. If I remember correctly, the only mods necessary were a longer input shaft (from a TR3/4), a shorter driveshaft (from a TR6), and some filing on the rear tranny mount. I have the OD switch from a Stag (like a Spitfire only with the correct shift pattern) on the TR3 shift lever (the lever is hollow; I just drilled an access hole for the wires). The electrical wiring and setting of the solenoid were quite simple; I followed the instructions in a TR6 shop manual. My modified engine would be a "fast road" in England, and it really likes the overdrive.
 
Back
Top