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TR4/4A TR-4A with Rat-co frame, Hood hits engine!

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nissanite

nissanite

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Any one have any experiences with this upgrade. The car has been undergoing a 7 year restoration and it just came back from the body shop. Fred from Healey Revival told me he could not put the hood on. It hits the engine. i gave him the chassis with the new JB Racing FI engine. Without the hood lying a straight endge accross the fender beeds finds the engine just touching the edge. looking at the hood and eyeballing the clearance the engine is about an inch high. I am using the TR4 round motor mounts and a Alexander aluminum engine plate.

Any ideas? I am puzzled and paniced.
 
Do you have the solid shims between the body and frame?
 
nissanite said:
...Without the hood lying a straight endge accross the fender beeds finds the engine just touching the edge...
Click to expand...

I just tried a straight edge on mine (though it is a TR4) as you described -- I have about 1.5" of clearance at the high point which is the top of the thermostat housing (excluding the carbs of course as they have the bulge).

IOW -- the shims question is a good one but I don't think you're close enough that shims could account for or fix the problem.

Is the car sitting on tires? If so, how do the tires look in the fender well? Does it look like the body sits low?

What is the high point of the engine that just touches the straight edge?

Sure hope this is some simple & easily reversible error.
 
I don't know if it is possible to put them on wrong, but I would certainly check the engine mounts. However, if the engine were higher I would think the tranny would be close to or hitting the bell housing on the tranny, that is a pretty tight fit, how does it look there (assuming the tranny is in)? Is it high in the front, back or across the whole length?
 
The front of the valve cover at the front is even with a straight edge.

The car is lowered with goodparts springs and looks real good. The rockers are even with the frame front and rear.

The car has shims to the frame and the body. Up to 1/2'" in some places.

The bellhousing is too close to the tunnel and it looks like the engine should drop 1.5 inches in the front would cure problem. Thin is the engine mounts are only about that tall.
 
On an original 4A the extension-piece. on the end of the crank, that holds the fan, is so close to the steering-rack that a fan belt wont pass through the gap. You have to lift the engine up off its mounts to change the belt.

It seems as if you probably have the body fitted to the chassis correctly. The engine seems to be too high in the frame.
Perhaps the front-plate is wrong somehow. Maybe you somehow got a TR6 plate to fit on somehow.

I have an original 4A with the engine out at present. Maybe I could measure something.

The WSM has lots of frame dimensions in it and there is an on-line version if you dont have a copy.

Al.
 
Looking in a catalog I see that the TR3 front plate is a different p/n from the TR4/4A plate. I do not know what the difference is but makes me wonder.

Also, you say you used TR4 engine mounts -- I have never paid close attention to the TR4A engine mounts but in the illustration they look thinner than the thick round TR4 mounts.
 
That is scary. Sorry to hear that.

They didn't shim around the motor mounts did they?

Now, about those round vs. rectangular mounts. Yes, I measured them once and found the round ones to be a slight bit thicker, but I have to say--no way that would account for the problem. I think the difference was at most 1/8 of an inch.

I don't know anything about a JB racing engine, but I'd want to hear what you find, and what RATCO says! I'd be worried if the block, head, valve cover, intake manifold or any of that is "taller."
 
Geo made me think of an Idea. The TR4 front plate is taller than a TR3, worse case for this car is put a TR3 front plate on it and drop the engine down. Many years ago I put a TR4 motor in a TR3 ( without changing the front mount). I had to make shorter motor mounts for it to work with out the hood hitting engine.

Marv
 
The round mounts are fine in my 4A. Actually they are a bit small and need a 1/8in shim.

Have you got the fan-extension fitted? This a good guide as to why the engine is too high.

People take these off and use electric fans. On a 6 the cranks sometimes break if you do this. Opinion is divided over here about taking these off on a 4-pot engine.
 
Contact Tony and get info on other 4 frame owners and talk to them
 
Thanks for all of the input. I called Tony at RAT-CO and he could not have been nicer. He wants pictures and some measurements. He suggested I not panic. it will all be ok. I will look at and order more mounts to see.
 
nissanite said:
...He suggested I not panic. it will all be ok...
Click to expand...

Don't%20panic-300x252.jpg


Good advice on the eve of Towel Day.
 
Cool Froods know where their towel is.
 
nissanite said:
Thanks for all of the input. I called Tony at RAT-CO and he could not have been nicer. He wants pictures and some measurements. He suggested I not panic. it will all be ok. I will look at and order more mounts to see.
Click to expand...

Whatever happened here? Hood wouldn't close after rebuild with new frame . . . .
 
alanjohnturner said:
Oddly enough only yesterday I was thinking "whatever happened to the guy whose engine was too high up".
Click to expand...

It could be that RATCO is re-doing that frame. I wondered back then how it could be something simple. I would've disobeyed the "no panic" suggestion. But, then, again, I think that engine setup may have entailed some modifications, so perhaps there's more to it.
 
TR3A front plate had narrower spaced engine mounts. Widened TR4/4A frame needed a new plate.

Is the alloy rocker cover higher than the original pressed steel item ?.

Viv
 
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