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TR 4 frames

Gearhead

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Would like to know if any members have any experience putting a new frame under a TR4 I have one w/a rotted off left rear suspension, already have all fenders off drivetrain interior etc. Who is a good vendor to buy a frame from is the rest of the body easy enough for 3,4,5,6people to lift off any suggestions b4 I lift off body i already have interior braced between doors Thanks Mark
 
If you can get a copy of the factory service manual, it actually give detailed instructions, with pictures, on how to lift the body tub off.
4 guys can do it easily. have the bumper brackets all removed, and be prepared to lift it far enough to clear the spring towers in the front.Also have suppourts ready so the body dosen't get out of shape from sitting unsuppourted for a length of time.
Pretty straight forward otherwise.
 
Hi,

AFAIK, Rato-co doesn't yet have a replacement for the TR4 "ladder" chassis, just for TR4A and later models.

If they do, that would be the only source for a new part on this side of the Atlantic. I think there are one or two British vendors who might make up semi-custom built one (be sitting down when you ask the price, and that's before shipping and import duties!). Probably Revington TR could handle it, possibly some others as well.

Better bet would probably be to track down a good, used one. It's not that uncommon, the TR4 chassis was made of heavier metal and tends to hold up better than later TR frames. Also, after a friend cut one up for scrap (bent beyond repair), he told me he found the inside of it was painted by the factory, prior to assembly and tack welding. That might be another reason the earlier frames tend to outlive the later ones.

There were some minor differences between TR4 chassis themselves. You will find a plate on the main chassis member under the front of the engine. My '62 TR4 had a "C" frame. When I rebuilt it, I got hold of a used, "B6" (or maybe "B8", I can't recall exactly) from a slightly earlier car. To give you some idea how minor the differences were, I had to add gussets to the rack & pinion mounts and an exhaust bracket, which apparantly weren't used on the earlier cars. A little bending and welding was all that was needed. I can only assume there were "A" "B" and "C", possibly others and some numerical suffixes within those. Just watch out if your car is a super early one with the 0 degree caster front end, in which case the frame parts might be significantly different and the front portion around the spring towers would likely be the most difficult to swap parts around, where the dimensions are pretty critical. If your car were a very early one, a TR3 frame might even be modified to fit. (Triumph did so at the factory themselves.) Front and rear body mountings are different, but are available from some vendors. Outriggers need to be lengthened about an inch each side. Rack & pinion mountings need to be installed.

Later TR4 ladder chassis used a different R&P and mounts for it, too. Same parts as were used on TR4A - TR6.

So, in light of some of the changes, the easiest replacement would be one from a car with the matching frame designation, which would be one with a similar or relatively close commission number. OTOH, with a few exceptions, differences are pretty easily rectified.

You say yours is rotted, but are you sure it's not repairable? Without more detail about just what's rusted away, I can't really say for sure.

Again, Revington TR is a major supplier of many pieces to repair the frames. Most vendors offer some of the more commonly needed parts. Much of it is also pretty simple stuff for a local welding shop to fabricate from scratch. Might be worth checking out, before you spend very much on a used replacement.

Yes, as noted, the body is designed to be lifted off pretty easily, and 4 guys can do it. I did it single-handedly... okay, I used a couple 1000 lb chain hoists. The tub itself probably weight 400 lbs or there-abouts. The more that is stripped off, the easier it is to lift, of course! If the doors are removed, you must brace it, so the body doesn't try to fold in half under it's own weight (usually just gets tweaked and twisted, unless severely rotted in the rockers and elsewhere).

Yes, I agree... get the factoy service manual for a detailed description of the process of removing the body and guidelines for lifting it. There are a couple photos of the body lifted off my TR4 at the link in my signature lines.
 
Beg to differ, I was just looking at the latest issue of Classic Motorsports and it had an ad from Rat-Co mentioning TR3 and TR4 frames to soon be available - no other details at this time
 
Gearhead,
Suggest you remove the tub then assess the situation.....it needs to come off regardless of wether the frame is repairable or must be replaced. Post some pictures on the site so we can opine!..You can definetley get the parts fro m several sources, if only 1 section is toast. There is a shop in RI near providence...Auto Rust Technicians. They will make up a section of frame in short order and it will be better than the factory original...ask for Gerry. NFI, nut they did great work on my 4A frame a couple of years ago.
 
Auto Rust of Providence trashed my 4A frame a couple of years ago. I spent over an hour with them diagramming the rusted ares on my frame and how I wanted the rust cut out and sectioned in with new metal. I told them up front my limit was $800 (or I'd buy new) and provided them new trailing arms, a new rear support tube, suspension reinforcing parts and new section pieces. I blasted the frame to clean metal to reveal all the rust and chalkmarked the bad areas.

After two weeks, Gerry called and said the bill was $1750. On the way there, my wife and I rationalized the expense because we expected for all that money, baby would be perfect, jigged straight.

What we found was the blasted clean frame was left outside and covered with a plastic sheet(in the rain). The sheet had a pool of water in the center of the frame it draped over. The clean metal underneath was bright orange. Removing the plastic revealed the true quality of their work. The trailing arms were done quite well; Gerry has had a jig for this for a long time. But that was were the quality stopped. There were a patchwork of pieces of 16ga. metal tacked around the edge layered on top of all the rusty metal that I had marked for removal and sectioning. There were lots of these and the welding looked like 1st day welding in HS shop class. Instead of removing the rear support tube, they cut the old one on the inside legs of the frame, then cut the new tube I waited months for because of availability, and welded the cut ends together. They forgot t install the front reinforcements.

Gerry's response was that it was now safer and (my bare frame from my frame up resto) would pass inspection and the bill is justified.

Well I left the frame without paying. I was already out around $300 in parts not to mention the two trips to Providence. Gerry threatened to sue and started a personal telephone, then email campaign against me. We reached a mutual payment (to avoid suit and excess trips to court in RI) of $500. So now I was out over $800, had zero frame, but kept the front suspension pieces they forgot to put in (small winning huh?) Several months later I received an email from Gerry thanking me for screwing him and ended saying all British car guys have small sexual organs. I have kept this information documented.

After hearing of my plight, one of the team.net listers from Maryland contacted me and offered a near perfect 4A frame for $400. The trip was a little long but an adventure and I fainally got to drive my 1st TR in Maryland. Now I've learned how to weld and do my own work. Beware.
 
Thanks for all the quick answers it seems like these Triumph frames have all reached there prime many years ago the frame/car I'am working on has totally lost the left rear a-arm from the frame will post the pics as soon as I find the disc that has the pics I heard other horror stories from guys around hear from my local club SJBMC similar to PeterK's this was from a vendor near the Trenton area which will go nameless for now thanks again Mark I do have both the factory shop manual and a thick red shop manual the name escapes me now but there is nothing like asking folks who have done it b4
 
Don't shoot me but its not a TR4 but a TR250 sorry MG's are what I know not Triumphs but any why here are some pics hope u can see them alright
 

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Hi again Mark,

That changes things a lot! TR250 used the IRS frame, which is available from Ratco now. It also explains to some degree why it's in such bad shape. The later frame was not made from as heavy material and might not have had even the small amount of internal protection the earlier one appears to have receieved. Also, the later design leaves several key gaps for moisture and dirt to enter, get trapped inside and cause the frame tubes to rust from the inside out.

The pictures you posted do look pretty bad. However, if the damage is localized to that rear area, all those parts are available and it might actually be rebuildable. Hard to say without close inspection of the remainder of the frame.

There are some modifications and reinforcements recommended in these areas, anyway.

Except for the upper bridge between with the spring perches and diff mounts, I think the rest of the parts can actually be made up relaltively easily from plain sheet steel and tubing, by any really good frame/sheet metal shop.

One thing that's sometimes overlooked when doing this is that the two diagonal frame members where the trailing arms mount actually have some structural members inside them, to prevent the box section from collapsing when the trailing arm bracket bolts are tightened down.

The replacement parts that are available for these areas are all done to original specs. This would actually be a good place to beef things up with a heavier gauge material. The differential mounts in the bridge piece also should be strengthened, while so easily accessed.

The body-off frame work might offer a good opportunity to install a tube shock conversion, too. It's also a good time to run new brake and fuel lines, and even install a new exhaust system. All this is much more easily done before the body is reinstalled, if any of it is under consideration.

Note: with the IRS cars, it's a pretty good idea to do any body repairs with the tub temporarily back on the frame and with the car raised by with the car's weight on it's suspension. This is because there's some inherent flex in the body and even to a pristine frame (although the Ratco replacements seem to have some improvements and might not flex as much). If the body is worked on separate from the frame, you might find when it's reinstalled that they won't mate up properly because one or the other or both are a bit tweaked. This is especially true if replacing structural body panels like the rockers, A-posts and B-posts.

Let us know how it goes!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
Just call RATCO and order one, you'll love it.
 
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