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Timing help?
- Thread starter Wana
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OP
Wana
Jedi Hopeful
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Hi Keoke, thanks for responding (as you always seem to do /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thankyousign.gif) to my obviously total neophyte auto mechanic question. No, I don't have a timing light or dwell meter, however for the sake of discussion (and learning) let's say that I do. Now what do I do with them... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazyeyes.gif
BrandonBJ8
Jedi Trainee
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I'm in the same boat as Wana and am interested in this topic as well.
GregW
Yoda
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Hi guys,
Since most Healeys have only a TDC mark on the crank pulley, I’d suggest getting a “dial-back” timing light. What the dial back function does is adjust when the flash occurs. So on a BJ8, when you dial in 15 degrees on the timing light, the timing light will fire when the pulley mark lines up with the timing chain cover arrow. This is the timing light I have. It has all the bells and whistles but unfortunately doesn’t like to work with the multi-spark ignition system I have. It has a dwell meter built in, as well as an RPM reading. It may be more than you want, there are other alternatives.
OTC 3369
Timing an engine is pretty straight forward though. The timing light gets hooked up to the battery and there is a hookup for the #1 sparkplug wire. Make sure cords are out of the fan and start the engine. Aim the timing light at the crank pulley to see how close the timing is. I’ll stop here because I’ve never adjusted a Lucas distributor and I know there is a fine tuning knob that I’m unfamiliar with.
Since most Healeys have only a TDC mark on the crank pulley, I’d suggest getting a “dial-back” timing light. What the dial back function does is adjust when the flash occurs. So on a BJ8, when you dial in 15 degrees on the timing light, the timing light will fire when the pulley mark lines up with the timing chain cover arrow. This is the timing light I have. It has all the bells and whistles but unfortunately doesn’t like to work with the multi-spark ignition system I have. It has a dwell meter built in, as well as an RPM reading. It may be more than you want, there are other alternatives.
OTC 3369
Timing an engine is pretty straight forward though. The timing light gets hooked up to the battery and there is a hookup for the #1 sparkplug wire. Make sure cords are out of the fan and start the engine. Aim the timing light at the crank pulley to see how close the timing is. I’ll stop here because I’ve never adjusted a Lucas distributor and I know there is a fine tuning knob that I’m unfamiliar with.
healeynut
Jedi Knight
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Greg et. al.,
The dial back timing light is the single best invention for old cars ever made. My only suggestion is not to get the digital version greg talks about, but to get the one that has the hand dial on the back... much better for playing with while adjusting yoru timing... trust me on this one:
Combine this with a Pertronix EI and you'll be only be checking your timing once every 10 years!
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif
The dial back timing light is the single best invention for old cars ever made. My only suggestion is not to get the digital version greg talks about, but to get the one that has the hand dial on the back... much better for playing with while adjusting yoru timing... trust me on this one:
Combine this with a Pertronix EI and you'll be only be checking your timing once every 10 years!
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif
OP
Wana
Jedi Hopeful
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Thanks guys. OK, bear with me. I put a Pertronix electronic ignition and flamethrower coil on my car a little over a year ago. Also, the PO put a slightly "hotter" cam from Isky in the engine when he had it rebuilt about 8 years ago. So, I assume that I will not use the "standard" timing setting, but will need to use whatever the cam manufacturer specifies?
So, back to the actual checking/setting of the timing. I now understand that I am going to hook up the timing light and aim it at the crank pulley. Exactly what am I looking for? I'm guessing the mark on the pulley and another mark somewhere will line up when the strobe flashes? What if they don't? Is that when you turn the advance/retard knob on the distributor? Does this adjustment make the marks line up when you have the light dialed in to the desired setting?
Perhaps another subject, but should one adjust the carbs per the shop manual procedure after setting the timing? Will these adjustments change the timing at all, or once that's set it's set?
I really want to learn how to optimize the performance of my Healey myself, instead of writing a check to someone and being totally dependent on someone else. Thanks for all of your help!
So, back to the actual checking/setting of the timing. I now understand that I am going to hook up the timing light and aim it at the crank pulley. Exactly what am I looking for? I'm guessing the mark on the pulley and another mark somewhere will line up when the strobe flashes? What if they don't? Is that when you turn the advance/retard knob on the distributor? Does this adjustment make the marks line up when you have the light dialed in to the desired setting?
Perhaps another subject, but should one adjust the carbs per the shop manual procedure after setting the timing? Will these adjustments change the timing at all, or once that's set it's set?
I really want to learn how to optimize the performance of my Healey myself, instead of writing a check to someone and being totally dependent on someone else. Thanks for all of your help!
Keoke
Great Pumpkin
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BrandonBJ8 said:
OK Youse guys. Here we go. Before the timing can be set we must set the Point gap to~ 0.026" with a cheap feeler gauge or using an inexpensive Dwell Meter set the dwell at 30 Degrees +/- 3. Dwell and Point gap at this level of conversation are equivalent. Now go to sears or where ever and buy an inexpensive dial back timing lite. Using a good torch,Flash Light :G, locate the timing notch on the vibration damper and paint it black. Now paint ~ 1/2" each side of the mark with white paint. Presumably at this point we have set the point gap or dwell. Connect the inductive pickup to the #1 spark plug wire connect the ground wire to chassis. Note: if you are Positive ground the red alligator clip will be grounded, Black if Neg ground. The remaining wire will be connecte to a hot 12 Volt scorce. Set the dial on the timing lite to 15 Degrees. Start the engine and let it idle at about 800 RPM 600 if you can get it. now shine the timing lite on that little black mark we painted do you see it? Loosen the clamp bolt securing the distributor in place takes a 7/16" wrench. Holding the timing lite on the little black mark gradually move the distributor in the direction that causes the mark to move towards and align itself with the pointer attached to the RH side of the timing cover. Tighten the distributor clamping bolt just snug and go. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif---Keoke
GregW
Yoda
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One thing I didn’t have time to mention as they were turning the lights out at work was you should remove the vacuum hose from the distributor and seal it temporarily while timing the engine. I have the T-3-6 grind from Isky, probably the same that you have. I timed my per the shop manual.
With a dial back timing light set to the specs in the manual, the mark on the timing cover (red pointer in my photo) should line up with the mark you highlighted on the crank pulley.
With a dial back timing light set to the specs in the manual, the mark on the timing cover (red pointer in my photo) should line up with the mark you highlighted on the crank pulley.
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Keoke
Great Pumpkin
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Wanna you Bugger /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Ok You will want to open your spark plug gap up to 0.035". You may start your timing at the 15 Degree BTDC point. Advance it until the engine pings and back off 3 Degrees. Watch your engine temp carefully and adjust the timing using the vernier to establish its normal running point. Read the timing and record it for future use.
NOTE:
As a matter of fact I would record the timing existing on
the engine now. Because if it was initially done correctly it has not changed. You can not check the dwell on the Pertronix unit but it will be spot on.---Keoke
NOTE:
As a matter of fact I would record the timing existing on
the engine now. Because if it was initially done correctly it has not changed. You can not check the dwell on the Pertronix unit but it will be spot on.---Keoke
healeynut
Jedi Knight
Offline
Wana -
The order of tuning your car is as follows:
1) Warm up the car and set rocker / valve clearances (only needs to be done every 20K miles or so)
2) Adjust point gap (if you have points). If Pertronix, ignore this step.
3) Start motor and get idle to 600 (no more than 750). How you get there isn't too important at this stage
4) Put timing gun on motor and follow the tips Keoke gave you. Make sure you set the idle speed timing advance specified for your camshaft. There is a pin on the timing chain cover, which when lined up with the notch in the crank pulley, denotes TDC for the car. It is helpful to paint the pin and the notch white so you can see it with the inductive timing light. You may need a very bright flashlight or shop light to see the pin and the notch. Once your timing is set, you can start with the carbs.
5) Back off all the fast idle screws (located on the throttle shaft) so that your HD8 carb throttles are fully closed. If your engine dies that means the slow idle screws (the big screw on top of the carb) are down too far. Back this screw off each carb until the car idles steadily at ~ 600. Make double sure to check that each carb is drawing the same amount of air... using the ear-listening test is good enough, provided you listen to each carb at about the same height from the throat body. Once satisfied that each carb is drawing about the same air, you can lift the little piston lifting pin on the side of the carb - if the engine dies the carb is too lean - screw the idle mixture screw down. If the engine goes faster when you lift the dashpot piston lifting pin, the carb is too rich, back off the mixture idle screw. You want to get the engine to go just slightly faster when you lift this pin... at this stage the mixture is set right. Note that as you are fooling with this, the car will probably start idling faster (it is getting more efficient). You will then need to iterate through this process again by starting with the slow idle speed screws, getting the car to 600 rpm, and then checking everything again step by step. Two or three iterations through the process should be good enough.
Good Luck!
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif
The order of tuning your car is as follows:
1) Warm up the car and set rocker / valve clearances (only needs to be done every 20K miles or so)
2) Adjust point gap (if you have points). If Pertronix, ignore this step.
3) Start motor and get idle to 600 (no more than 750). How you get there isn't too important at this stage
4) Put timing gun on motor and follow the tips Keoke gave you. Make sure you set the idle speed timing advance specified for your camshaft. There is a pin on the timing chain cover, which when lined up with the notch in the crank pulley, denotes TDC for the car. It is helpful to paint the pin and the notch white so you can see it with the inductive timing light. You may need a very bright flashlight or shop light to see the pin and the notch. Once your timing is set, you can start with the carbs.
5) Back off all the fast idle screws (located on the throttle shaft) so that your HD8 carb throttles are fully closed. If your engine dies that means the slow idle screws (the big screw on top of the carb) are down too far. Back this screw off each carb until the car idles steadily at ~ 600. Make double sure to check that each carb is drawing the same amount of air... using the ear-listening test is good enough, provided you listen to each carb at about the same height from the throat body. Once satisfied that each carb is drawing about the same air, you can lift the little piston lifting pin on the side of the carb - if the engine dies the carb is too lean - screw the idle mixture screw down. If the engine goes faster when you lift the dashpot piston lifting pin, the carb is too rich, back off the mixture idle screw. You want to get the engine to go just slightly faster when you lift this pin... at this stage the mixture is set right. Note that as you are fooling with this, the car will probably start idling faster (it is getting more efficient). You will then need to iterate through this process again by starting with the slow idle speed screws, getting the car to 600 rpm, and then checking everything again step by step. Two or three iterations through the process should be good enough.
Good Luck!
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif
tahoe healey
Yoda
Offline
A good, convient hot source is the push button starter terminal. Same side and wires are out of the way. And you can ground to the generator attachment bolts. Gap your plugs and check for a nice tan-white coating on all plugs and you are good to go. Dry black is too rich, wet black is trouble (oil). Front three and back three should match or one of your carbs is richer than the other.
Usually when the dizz is rotated for timing the A/R knob is set in the middle position to start so you can do some fine tunning. Be sure the RPMs are low and not effecting the advance weights.
Usually when the dizz is rotated for timing the A/R knob is set in the middle position to start so you can do some fine tunning. Be sure the RPMs are low and not effecting the advance weights.
healeynut
Jedi Knight
Offline
GregW said:
That's true, that's an advantage of the Digital one - it has a Tach in it.
The dial ones, however, are very handy because they allow you to accurately and quickly determine the advance of the disty at any RPM... just twist the dial while the engine is at speed until the pointer on the timing cover and the notch on the pulley line up - presto you have your advance measurement. It's very handy if you want to check your advance curve. I suppose the digital ones will probably do this also but it just seems more fiddly to me.
Can't we all just get along?
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OP
Wana
Jedi Hopeful
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Dang I love this forum! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banana.gif Thanks guys for all of your tips and instructions! I'm not going to be able to attack this for a couple of weeks as I'm leaving on holiday, but when I get back I'll give it a go.
Keoke - thanks for the bit about opening my spark plug gaps up to .035. I just put a fresh set of NGK BP5ES in, but had gapped them to just over .025. BTW, what are the consequences and/or symptoms of incorrectly gapped plugs? I'm pretty sure that I've been running a bit rich as the old plugs were dry/black and my exhaust tips are black - even though the car has always run very well. The only concern has been fairly hard cold starting.
Keoke - thanks for the bit about opening my spark plug gaps up to .035. I just put a fresh set of NGK BP5ES in, but had gapped them to just over .025. BTW, what are the consequences and/or symptoms of incorrectly gapped plugs? I'm pretty sure that I've been running a bit rich as the old plugs were dry/black and my exhaust tips are black - even though the car has always run very well. The only concern has been fairly hard cold starting.
John Kuzman
Jedi Trainee
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One cautionary note - If your Healey is positive ground, do not allow the metal case of the timing light to come in contact with any metal on the car.
B
BobHorvath
Guest
Guest
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Lots of good stuff here about tune ups. When I set the timing I usually seek full advance. Living & running @ Tahoe I set full advance @ 35deg BTDC (with a dial-back). I then let the initial advance fall where it may. If it is more or less than desired @ 600RPM then I adjust the initial advance within the distributor, (a bit more complicated). Am I over looking something here?
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No, I don't think you are overlooking anything. I've said this before & didn't want to beat a dead horse. It's critically important to not exceed around 35 degrees total advance. Especially with higher compression engines. To do so will possibly get you into high rpm detonation which won't be heard or discovered until serious damage is done. If the engine performs better with more advance, it's time to rework the distributor advance curve as you say.BobHorvath said:
D
BrandonBJ8
Jedi Trainee
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Just curious, what exactly do you need to remove to be able to access and adjust the timing?