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Timing by Hand?

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I can assure you I have seen my share of Bubba work as well.
 
Were I working on other people's cars, I'd also use a timing light...
....however, on my cars...lemme just say this: I'm almost at 100,000 miles on my '79 Vermillion Red car - every mile put on by me except for way back when it was under warranty and once when Jerri drove it...&, every tune up has been done by me & its never had a timing light used on it - compression is still well over 115 or so & oil pressure is still at 75/50
..s.so, I agree with Tom & I disagree with Tom (nothing new there!)
 
I'm sure waaaaaay more than me!! You do 3 or 4 jobs a day and I do one every couple of weeks!! OH!!! I work every day, it just takes a minimum of a couple of weeks to do any construction job!! Actually, when I did the 'Twin Beach Homes' I was there for 6 monthes!! It was great!! No customers!!
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[ 08-28-2003: Message edited by: Gary Lloyd ]</p>
 
I've been trying to stay out of this discussion but can't resist any longer.

You guys seem to be talking about two different classes of engines. Low HP, low compression, & high HP high compression.

You can get away with sloppy timing on lawnmowers, Beatles, & old LBC's which have low compression ratios. Not on highly tuned engines. Don't try it on an all out race Beatle.

I agree with Nial, Gary, & Tom. The higher the compression ratio the more critical exactly correct timing is. A little over advanced & big engine damage. A little under advanced & less than maximum power.
D
 
Dave....you're correct...my 300hp 11:1 Rover V8 engine will get set-up on a computer - no static timing for it!
 
When you are familar with an engine, you can pull the distributor out put a set of points in it and set the timing with in a couple of degrees of correct before you fire it up. My point on this is that no more than a timing light cost, an no longer than it takes to set it up, what 5 seconds. What is the purpose of not using one, to make sure it is absolutly correct. I don't get it.
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[ 08-29-2003: Message edited by: Tom Bedenbaugh ]</p>
 
I set up my VW engine "by ear". Quite a few people have thrown the timing figures out the window and just run the timing up until they start to get detonation then back off from there. There's a point where that could cause other noticeable differences in the temps and operation of the engine, but it seems to work for a lot of people.
 
My first car was a VW beetle and I used to static time it. With the motor off, I would put it on the timing mark on the compression stroke and back off on the timing with the distributor until the points closed. Then with a ohm meter across the points rotate the distributor advanced until the points just opened then lock it down right there.

[ 08-28-2003: Message edited by: mrbassman ]</p>
 
&, mrbassman, I'll bet it was right on! Did the same type thing with daughter's Karmann Ghia for all the years she drove it...when we pull it out of mothballs for its final paint job before we put it in her garage at ehr house, we'll static time it & then tweek it by ear....no timing light needed!
 
The timing light is a valuable tool, but I would not be a slave to the factory settings. I static time, then use a vacuum gauge, readjust the carbs as needed, drive and listen for pinging, and readjust/check timing again until the car runs best for the given conditions, i.e. engine condition, elevation, and available fuel octane.
 
Andy,
I agree with you to a limit. As long as you don't exceed about 38 degrees maximum centrifugal plus static advance at 4,000 rpm & above. Over advancing can cause an actual loss of upper rpm power & put tremendous strain on the engine, all without audible detonation.

There are exceptions - Engines with very efficient combustion chambers ie. four valve per cylinder with central plug & shallow chamber cannot run more than around 30 degrees. Turbo or supercharged engines may have to be automatically backed off to 20 to 25 degrees as boost pressure rises. Nitrous oxide injected engines may have to be backed off a similar amount. On the other hand, for higher altitude operation timing can be advanced to maybe 40 degrees.
D
 
When I adjusted my timing, I first used static timing.... then the timing light. I found that static timing was right on.

But let's talk about setting up points with a feeler gauge! I learned something this year (happening a lot to this weekend hobbiest), using a gauge for contact points isn't accurate at all. My problem was that my timing always had to be way advanced for the car to run decent. This year, I bought a dwell meter to check the system. Found my handy gauge work on the points was way off - running at about 50 on the dwell. Adjusted to 60, then readjusted the timing to about 10-15 degrees BTDC and she ran great!

So here's what I've found (the non professional). Timing light isn't needed if static timing is done properly. But a dwell meter is essential to adjust the points. In my case, not using a dwell created much more of a problem because timing can't be adjusted anyway if the dwell is slightly off
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[ 08-31-2003: Message edited by: Jonnyc ]

[ 08-31-2003: Message edited by: Jonnyc ]</p>
 
That is true,
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but static timing is not so easy with a Petronix ignition, and if you put in one of them, you don't need a dwell meter!!
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gary Lloyd:
I was told that the total advance shouldn't exceed 30'. Which would be correct??<hr></blockquote>

Gary,
I don't understand the question. What engine, what compression ratio, at what rpm? What do you mean by which is correct? I noted some exceptions. Most old LBC's will tolerate 34 to 38 degrees at 4000 rpm & above. It depends upon combustion chamber design & a few other things.
D
 
Dave, are you saying that 34' to 38' is OK for a '66 with an older style head?? Or better still is there a chart somewhere that shows total advance??
 
Gary,

The referenced specs show that for the 65-67 18V HC, dist. #41288 -- 18-22 @ 2200 rpm plus 10 initial which gives 28-32 as you said. Down a few lines for the 18V HC dist. #41234 -- 26-30 @ 4500 rpm plus 10 initial which gives 36-40. I don't think that you would have any trouble by going up to 38 max at 4000 rpm, depending upon fuel octane, & amount of carbon in the combustion chambers.

Since the actual distributors advance can vary greatly with manufacturing tolerances, age, & condition, the factory is going to set a limit that is safe for all engines regardless of fuel octane, engine condition, distributor tolerances, driving habits, & possible carbon build up in the chambers. In my opinion, max advance is not really critical until the compression ratio starts to exceed 10 to 1. It will have to be your judgement call.
D
 
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