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Thinking about 5 speeds - seeking understanding

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JPSmit

JPSmit

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So, I've been thinking about 5 speeds (remembering that I have a 1500) I know that there is the Datsun/ Rivergate conversion for the 1275. According to various websites the Ford Sierra/XR4Ti is the conversion of choice for a 1500. The gearbox/bellhousing plate seems easy enough to make and other than sheet metal that is it. The problem is that XR4Ti gearboxes are not readily available like they are in Britian. So, here is my question.

How do we decide which gearbox will or won't work?

For instance, could a Hyundai Pony gearbox be adapted? If so, how would I know. How about a Chevette 5 speed? These are presumably two cars with small trannys. Obviously you could never admit you had Hyundai or Chevette parts in your car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif but other than that, what are the factors involved in choosing and adapting a 5 speed?

JP
 
The T-9 was used in the "Mercury Merkur", a Ford Sierra-based car sold here in the US around '88 to '92. I *think* it was sold in Canada too, with the same name.
These T-9 five speeds are not the most highly regarded transmissions, but they are OK.

If you go to "Car-Part.com" and plug in the make, model and year (use '88), you should find some. I see a fair number in the $300 to $400 range (USD).
Go here:

https://car-part.com/

Note: I see one in Ontario off this site for $350 CDN.
 
I know they are available. I guess the subtext should be - can I do it closer & cheaper (chevette trannys are $150) I'm also thinking about sheet metal and whether a smaller tranny might fit better. Mostly though I'm trying to understand how one transmission is chosen over another as being suitable. For instance I recall a number of months ago (I think on these boards) someone talking about a BMW 5 speed but being unable to make it match.

In other words, regardless of what I decide, what are the factors

Bellhousing? presumably gearbox has to mate to the existing one
spline? does it matter what size it is?
clutch? again, I guess size matters.

Just trying to sort it our in my mind

JP
 
Try a 5 speed pinto/mustang II gearbox. They are small and should have the same bolt pattern as the seirra box......I think?
 
Re: Thinking about 5 speeds - seeking understandin

You may consider putting a Spitfire overdrive tranny in. It will probably cost less than a 5-speed kit. You do have to make a few mods to the frame, but they are simple. All of the kits that I have seen for the 1500 require some cutting. There is a site I know of that goes through this conversion step by step. If you are interested, I will try to look it up.

If you can get a Chevette tran and are willing to risk the $ for an experiment, I think it would be worthwhile. I seriously suspect that the majority of the kits available today are based on what the dude who came up with them had lying around.

BTW, t-9 are popular conversions because they are super plentiful in England. They are not as easy to come by on this side of the pond.
 
Re: Thinking about 5 speeds - seeking understandin

What's the difference between the Type-9 (Europe) and the MTX-3 (US) Gearboxes? The cars used were very similar for the mtx, such as Topaz, Tracer, Escort etc. I have a feeling there's very little difference between the two, although I haven't looked that deeply into it. Engines used were of a similar size, 1.6 - 2.0 (with the exception of the merkur and larger sierras, but I do know that the same gearbox, T-9, mentioned was used in most ford cars in Europe from 1.3 up to 2.3.
That might be an avenue to look at when looking for a box at the 'yard.
This link will tell you all you need to know about comparative boxes and what you'll need for each.
https://www.mgcars.org.uk/midgetspriteclub/sprite/sprite5speed.htm

PS No offence Nial, I love the Seies 9 box in the fords I've owned, although, I'm not sure of it's performance in a spridget, it is a strong box. Does it get used in SCCA much?
 
Re: Thinking about 5 speeds - seeking understandin

[ QUOTE ]
What's the difference between the Type-9 (Europe) and the MTX-3 (US) Gearboxes? The cars used were very similar for the mtx, such as Topaz, Tracer, Escort etc. I have a feeling there's very little difference between the two, although I haven't looked that deeply into it. Engines used were of a similar size, 1.6 - 2.0 (with the exception of the merkur and larger sierras, but I do know that the same gearbox, T-9, mentioned was used in most ford cars in Europe from 1.3 up to 2.3.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off I would say that the US cars you mentioned were all front wheel drive making the MTX-3 a transaxle gearbox for transverse engines. Type 9's were used in front engine-rear drive set ups so the swap is much more straight forward.
 
JP, another factor to consider is whether the donor was a cable clutch or hydraulic and how much effort will be involved changing that over (in the case of the Chevette for example). Regarding the bellhousing, quad4rods may be able to make one for you, however, the clutch that matches the splines on the new box will have to mate to your flywheel or a flywheel will have to be mated to your 1500 crank bolt pattern.

Another consideration that I personally am up in the air on is what o/d ratio do I want??? The .82 seems to be more readily available than the .76 and I think I might would rather go with a .76 just because that was what the J type in the Spitfire had (from what I have read).

I'm leaning toward a Samurai or Sidekick/Tracker box. Cheap and readily available in wrecking yards. Also not the most unreliable from what I have heard and experienced. The Sami box has closer ratios (1-4) than the Sidekick which has it advantages going up through the gears, but coming back down, especially on the 4-2 downshift that may be a liability?

At any rate, the 1500 5 speed seems to be a topic with more questions than answers at the moment.

Good luck with your search, JP and any info I find along the way I will pass on.

Johnny
 
Re: Thinking about 5 speeds - seeking understandin

[ QUOTE ]
Type 9's were used in front engine-rear drive set ups

[/ QUOTE ]

Arghh, wish I hadn't junked that capri now..
 
Re: Thinking about 5 speeds - seeking understandin

[ QUOTE ]
JP, another factor to consider is whether the donor was a cable clutch or hydraulic and how much effort will be involved changing that over

[/ QUOTE ]

the existing tranny is hydraulic though - right?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm leaning toward a Samurai or Sidekick/Tracker box. Cheap and readily available in wrecking yards. Also not the most unreliable from what I have heard and experienced. The Sami box has closer ratios (1-4) than the Sidekick which has it advantages going up through the gears, but coming back down, especially on the 4-2 downshift that may be a liability?

[/ QUOTE ]

are there any issues with the samurai/sidekick being 4 wheel drive?

any thoughts about a mustang 4 cylinder 5 speed?
 
Re: Thinking about 5 speeds - seeking understandin

the sidekick also came in 2 wheel drive
 
Re: Thinking about 5 speeds - seeking understandin

[ QUOTE ]
any thoughts about a mustang 4 cylinder 5 speed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure mustangs use a T5, that one will need a bit more cutting, it's huge.
 
Re: Thinking about 5 speeds - seeking understandin

Mustang II's used a 2.3 liter four with a Pinto gearbox. The later mustangs did use a t-5.....I think?
 
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