• Hi Guest!
    You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

terminology

Share this page

C

chris roop

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
After seeing some car ads, the following question came to mind. I posted at another bbs, got one serious answer, and another that accused me of showing my ignorance.
I am ignorant, not stupid, and to cure my ignorance, posted the question (stupid people wouldn't have thought of getting educated)
The question is:
1. What is the difference between a show car and a driver?
2. What is the preferred order of source of parts in a restoration? Rebuilt originals, NOS, aftermarket stuff?

I post this with trepidation after my last shot
 
Chris,
Not a dumb question at all. Here is a link that explains one of the classification systems.
https://www.healey.org/buyers-price-guide.shtml

Although it describes Healey's It applies equally to most cars. The one footer would almost certainly be a show only car. There are a fair number of five footers that are driven occasionally. A daily driver would likely be a ten footer or more.

Since not all people use the same grading system, ideas may vary.

Parts would be best if NOS or rebuilt original. In the end, some parts are only available as new replacement. Some of these don't match the originals & would not be good on a concours car. (A car intended to be entered in coucours competition & judged for originality under a very strict set of rules.) Probably only the one footer & maybe a few five footers would be built to this rigid standard.

I hope that this helps,
D

[ 05-06-2003: Message edited by: Dave Russell ]</p>
 
Now I feel stupid...but I am no longer ignorant...thanks for asking and more thanks for the great answer!

Dang, this Forum is so informative!!!
cheers.gif


Bruce
 
I agree with Bruce, this is one of the most polite and informative boards out there. Basil, I know you want to grow it, but also consider the issue of quality over quantity. We've all been flamed for asking questions on other boards. It's nice to have a place where questions are welcome.

Thanks to all.
 
I like the ranking system posted, and the answers (despite the fact that I have my own opinions on the matter!). As for new old stock vs. remanufactured, it all depends on what the car's for. Concours (strict originality) will knock points off for "non-original" parts, down to and including consumables like tires, and take points off for the condition of those parts. I read a "Salon" article in R&T once, featuring a gorgeous, restored to all-original spec Bugeye Sprite. It did not get 100 out of 100 because of the tires. Original, never used Dunlop Gold Seals, I believe, and the points were taken off because of some dry-rot cracking in the tires (which did not show up in the photos!). Incredible.
-William
 
In for-sale ads I consider "show car" to mean a top-quality car in all respects that is maintained and driven for the primary purpose of participating in car shows, cruise ins, etc. but not for daily transportation. If a car were described in an ad as a "show car" I would expect to drive up to a scratch free, ding free, rust free, sparkling, glowing, trophy-winning car.

That doesn't however imply they're a concourse-ready with a pedegree listing wins at Amelia Island and the like. Cars with wins at internationally recognized concourse "shows" are usually advertised as such and are a rare breed.

That's my take on it anyway.

I agree with William, I think the only way to answer the parts-issue question is to look at the intent of the restoration. If the car is being rebuilt to compete at Pebble Beach or Amelia Island then rebuilt original parts restored to factory-new conditions, including any chalk or other builder's marks is desireable if not critical toward a real concourse win (IE: new Hella halogen headlamps might be better on the road, but you won't win concourse points with them).

If the car is being built as a modern daily driver then one would be stupid to criticize the use of better or upgraded parts in their restorations. Sure, the parts used may not be original but since faithful originality wasn't the intent it really doesn't matter.

I'm tempted to enter into a rant about car ads, but...I'll just say I'm still scratching my head about the ad I read last month that said "Red Italian import convertible MGB Midget, very rare". Yes, I imagine it probably was
smile.gif
 
There was an article in MG-World Magazine (I think) a couple of years ago about a 60s MGB in the UK that was built to concours condition. The owner went to extraordinary lengths to make it "perfect", including hand-coloring the repro fabric wiring harness-loom (the repros come with white spots, the originals were yellow). Even with that level of detail the car lost points because of a few other details the judges picked up on
smile.gif


I think that particular car was used in some of the pictures of the red '64 MGB in the book "Original MGB"
 
Concours judging brings new meaning to the phrase “anal retentive”. I prefer to have a life and if they don’t my car the way it is, then they can stuff it. Sorry for the rant, but concours judging reminds me of all of the people I have met in the past who think they are superior, NOT
 
Agreed! But it takes all types. I enjoy working to make my car as nice as I can, and mostly original, but I concours-perfect car it will never be. I drive it every day, and really don't see the point of putting so much time and effort into a car that it just going to sit under glass all the time...
 
If I owned a Rolls Silver Ghost or a Dusenberg I might think about the Pebble Beach group, but as I can't find one, nor will I ever afford one, I find that maintaining my bluspit in a happy manner keeps us both satisfied. Guess I'd fail the Snob test too.
Have fun, that's what it's all about.
Dave T
 
So in the end, there is concourse, show, and driver classes, and a show car can be driven.
This helps. My cars are not concourse, even when fresh. But I know what I like!
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by chris roop:
So in the end, there is concourse, show, and driver classes, and a show car can be driven.
This helps. My cars are not concourse, even when fresh. But I know what I like!<hr></blockquote>

At least in loose terminology I think yes.

My car isn't hardly concourse either - and I'm tiring of the critics sometimes treating me like a heritic because I don't have black bumpers (actually was confronted by someone because of it recently, I couldn't believe it!).
 
Whose car is it anyway? Yours or somebody who has the idea if their car is so original it doesn't utilize some of the technology/fun items developed since it was made? If someone would question how my car was set up I wouuld do the same thing with his. Is he using original oil/gas/tires developed during the year his car was made? Is he using it for the purpose it was intended? If not who is more "original" a car that is driven only off a trailer or one that is a daily driver? Each of us MUST decide on the use of our LBC's that we purchase as we paid the price then and continually. What business is it of someone else how each of us uses our cars or any other possesion? Just a thought on a subject that not only applies to LBC's but many things in life.
 
Back
Top