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Steering rebuild followup - still issues

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steveg

steveg

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A month after the install, my steering (new DWR worm & peg, corn head grease) alternates between too much play and too tight. I can't seem to adjust it correctly.

Questions I'll try to answer:
1) is it possible that 6 belleville washers is too much and I should go to 4?
2) could the corn head grease be the cause of the binding?

First step will be to remove as much of the corn head as possible and install the NLGI 00 grease (same wt as Penrite) - maybe I can take the lid off the box in the car.
 
Try five (5) washers, or flip one (1) of them around; play with the stack height a bit to see if it's better or worse.
 
steveg said:
...I can't seem to adjust it correctly....
Click to expand...

I think that's the most likely explanation. I recall last time I adjusted my BJ8's box it was just a few degrees of turn on the adjusting pin between too loose and binding. The belleville washers are there to set the height of the rocker and peg, and to keep a pre-load on the thrust bolt; I don't think they're the problem.

I've never disassembled one, but I see the later boxes have needle rollers in the peg's cage. If these were worn you might get some inconsistency, but you probably inspected those when you installed the new peg. Did you pack them with grease?
 
I put a mix of Penrite and corn head in mine when I rebuilt it. I thought straight corn head was a bit too thick for winter. Does the binding or too loose correlate to temperature?
 
John Turney said:
I put a mix of Penrite and corn head in mine when I rebuilt it. I thought straight corn head was a bit too thick for winter. Does the binding or too loose correlate to temperature?
Click to expand...

Bob - the needles were fine; in fact the original peg appeared to be fine as well.

It binds when I drive off down the street and by the time I've made a few turns, it's loose. The binding may temporarily return occasionally for a short time while I'm driving. At no time has it been bad enough to represent a safety issue.

Took a fairly long drive the other day - afterwards, the box was barely lukewarm to the touch so I don't think temperature is an issue.
 
Well if that Corn Grease is actually grease it may be that it is being pushed away from the friction surfaces when they move and additional friction builds up ??
 
Today removed the cover and replaced around half the corn head with penrite. No change in the steering so far on a short neighborhood drive, but need to give it some time to mix properly. Longer drive tomorrow.
 
OK: Try backing the peg off a bit too ??



OH! six of those washers may be too much, from a foggy memory 4 of the washers go back to back forming a bubble the fifth one fits reveresed ???
 
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Just had a thought (that didn't die of loneliness): The DWR catalog mentions the general deficiencies in Healey steering boxes. Maybe a new, precisely engineered and machined worm and peg is just exposing the deficiencies of the stock box?
 
Bob_Spidell said:
Just had a thought (that didn't die of loneliness): The DWR catalog mentions the general deficiencies in Healey steering boxes. Maybe a new, precisely engineered and machined worm and peg is just exposing the deficiencies of the stock box?
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. This box functioned well before I messed it up. I'll be keeping after this problem even if it means reinstalling my old chipped worm as a control.

If I'm not able to fix the box on the car, intend to remove it and fix it on the bench.

Next step will be to remove the pittman arm and rocker shaft to see if the binding is in the worm & bearing setup.

Will keep the forum posted.
 
One more thought (I've my own issues with these steering boxes so, yeah, it's personal). IIRC, you mentioned you sourced a used upper bearing and/or race; could there be something wrong with either, or both?
 
Steve,
A couple of questions.

When you have the car in the air with no tire resistance, is there a tight spot as you go from lock to lock?

If so, is it repeated at the same point in the travel from one direction to the other?

More than one tight spot in the full travel?

I ask because, as you know, in the stock original there was a deliberate tight/snug spot in the middle (straight ahead) position. I have always thought that was because they wanted as little play as possible at dead straight while wanting to make sure there was no other bind in the travel. DW touts the fact that they have a "constant worm" - this means to me that it will be snug all the way thru the range of right to left and I am wondering if this is working against you??? Could you be experiencing a tight spot, or possibly more than one because it is a uniform worm? It would only take a few thousandths to cause a bind.

There were lots of this type of steering box produced (lots of brands of cars) with lots of good engineers designing them back in the day and most, if not all, had the tight spot in the middle...for a reason - it had to be more difficult to machine that taper than it would have been to make a straight worm and I doubt they would have gone to the expense and hassle unless they all believed they heeded it. Now DW says they have discovered a better mouse trap..... I tend to think it may be simply easier to make....

It seems to me that there could be just the slightest variation in the grinding of the worm that could cause an irregularity resulting in a slight bind somewhere thru the range?

I don't think the Bellville washers or grade of lubricant are causing this. I also don't think the housing (box) is the problem unless something was machined incorrectly at the factory.

You may simply have to back off the peg a bit an accept a slight clearance throughout the range of motion.

Random thoughts,
Dave
 
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red57 said:
Steve,
A couple of questions.

When you have the car in the air with no tire resistance, is there a tight spot as you go from lock to lock?

If so, is it repeated at the same point in the travel from one direction to the other?

More than one tight spot in the full travel?

I ask because, as you know, in the stock original there was a deliberate tight/snug spot in the middle (straight ahead) position. I have always thought that was because they wanted as little play as possible at dead straight while wanting to make sure there was no other bind in the travel. DW touts the fact that they have a "constant worm" - this means to me that it will be snug all the way thru the range of right to left and I am wondering if this is working against you??? Could you be experiencing a tight spot, or possibly more than one because it is a uniform worm? It would only take a few thousandths to cause a bind.

There were lots of this type of steering box produced (lots of brands of cars) with lots of good engineers designing them back in the day and most, if not all, had the tight spot in the middle...for a reason - it had to be more difficult to machine that taper than it would have been to make a straight worm and I doubt they would have gone to the expense and hassle unless they all believed they heeded it. Now DW says they have discovered a better mouse trap..... I tend to think it may be simply easier to make....

It seems to me that there could be just the slightest variation in the grinding of the worm that could cause an irregularity resulting in a slight bind somewhere thru the range?

I don't think the Bellville washers or grade of lubricant are causing this. I also don't think the housing (box) is the problem unless something was machined incorrectly at the factory.

You may simply have to back off the peg a bit an accept a slight clearance throughout the range of motion.

Random thoughts,
Dave
Click to expand...

Will report back after today's determinations.
 
Have arrived at a satisfactory resolution. Will post a more complete paper on John Sims' site. Takeaways:

Adjustment is a combination of front shims and adjuster screw adjustment. My previous too-loose shims gave too much play in the wheel, as well as tightness at certain spots.

The used bearings, while looking OK, sounded noisy so I bit the bullet and replaced the bearings and cup races (from Moss).

I used a digital caliper to measure the protrusion of the front bearing cup, then added shims to about .005" more than that. An absolute minimum of play here - like the front wheel bearings. The DWR worm had a slight high spot part way between center and left lock so I adjusted to almost zero play at that point.

I also added a bearing centering collar to the shaft, behind the rear bearing race. This prevents the rear bearing from getting hung up at an angle (which destroyed my original steering). It was made from a piece of 1" electrical conduit squished down to be a light press fit on the column. It does the job without rubbing the inside of the column tube.

I measured the stock and DWR worms by removing the belleville washers and letting the peg ride in the worm by gravity only - with the box clean except for light oiling of the parts. See pix below. The stock worm, zeroed at the center high spot, varied about .013" looser at either end.

I installed 00 grease (same grade as Penrite - available on Amazon).

After carefully adjusting to almost zero play at the steering arm at the high spot, 5/8" of play at the steering wheel was achieved.

After this process, I believe the weight of 0 or 00 grease is unimportant. Numbers of belleville washers didn't alter the setting, so I stuck to 6 per the Moss catalog.

SteerBearingCenteringSleeve.jpg
SteerDialLeft.JPG
SteerDialRight.JPG


SteerCheckPlay.jpg
Arm locked for checking play at steering wheel.
 
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Bob_Spidell said:
Well, is the DWR worm 'the next best thing to rack and pinion,' like they claim?
Click to expand...

Will see. I thought my Alfa's Burman recirculating ball was better than either.

Will followup after I have a chance to drive and do my final QA.

Even with the expensive bearings, my total rebuild cost is still < $1000.
 
Have been out of town so the steering project went on hold.
Should have an answer in the next couple of days. Will have the box back out tomorrow and, at this point, have an idea what the problem may be. More when I know for sure.
 
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