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Steering question

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Michael Oritt

Michael Oritt

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My wife and I went out for an extended ride yesterday. She drove first and though she does not have much experience with the car is a quick study and good thinker. After she had driven for perhaps 20 miles she commented that the steering seemed go be "wandering" and required constant small adjustments to keep the car going straight. She felt that the condition did not start until after we had been driving for a while.

I did not say anything and thought to myself that she simply was not used to the car. After about 50 miles we switched and--whether or not it was because of her comment--I noticed that the car did in fact want to wander and I had to stay on top of keeping the car from veering ever so slightly from left or right of center. The situation remained the same for the balance of the trip--about 150 or so miles in all till we came home.

Whether or not this is relevant--once the wheel is turned to set up for a turn everything seems fine and the car holds a steady track through the turn. It was only when the wheels were straight ahead that the issue presented.

I decided to address this today and with the car in the garage I find that there is virtually no play whatsoever in the steering--perhaps 1/2" or less--whether the front wheels are on or off the ground. I have looked through my service manual but before I begin to tear things apart, etc. I thought I would get some input from the forum.
 
Steering box needs adjustment, bad tie rod end ?
 
HealeyRick said:
Loose wheel bearings?
Click to expand...

Rick--

Nope, or at least there is no play when I attempt to wiggle the wheel in either up/down or side/side planes, and that is the way I have always been taught to test for wheel bearing end play, etc.
 
Healey Nut said:
Steering box needs adjustment
Click to expand...

Okay, "something" needs adjustment but which "adjustment" are we talking about? Section K-7 of the manual describes a procedure for "later" cars--mine is #222333 from 12/54--that tells me to slacken the adjusting screw locknut and then, after removing the cover plate, tightening down the adjusting screw to remove any free play. As stated in my first post there is virtually no free play when the car is at rest--at most 1/2"--whether on or off the ground.

I don't mind tearing things apart but I simply want to know I am headed in the right direction--no play on words intended.
 
Healey Nut said:
Steering box needs adjustment, bad tie rod end ?
Click to expand...

Healey Nut--

You added "bad tie rod end" to your first post. I just came out from under the car and find absolutely no play in the steering linkage when turning the wheels from side to side by hand. If the ball joints, etc. were bad would not this translate into sloppiness in the steering mechanism that I could see and feel when pushing the wheels from side to side?
 
Hi Michael and Happy Holidays to ALL.

Although my first thoughts and suggestions would have been those already given, there is one situation I personally experienced that produced some steering wondering. It turned out that one of the front wheel tire, in a set recently purchased, had a defect that was unperceivable but made itself present when underway and would cause slight inconsistent deviations in tracking. As a result, the car seemed to slightly wander and need small but continuous corrections.

After a period of investigating all the issues presented to you, a friend questioned "Didn't you just buy new tires?" and suggested I move the front tires to the back. The change produced more precise tracking but took further testing to identify the tire/s with problems. Additionally, I could not convince the tire supplier who also mounted and balanced the tire that the tire/s were at fault. To validate the condition was caused by improperly tracking tires, he re-executed a spin balance on the (original front) tires in question and saw no deviations from the original balancing that (he felt) would have affected tire tracking. However, since I felt the defect was only apparent when the car was under load, I did not feel as confident in his conclusion finally narrowed the problem to 1 tire and paid for its replacement and presently use the problem tire as a spare.

Good luck on your pursuit,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
FWIW, when I 'transitioned' from a BJ8 to our BN2 I felt the car was 'squirrelly' compared to the BJ8 (with larger-than-stock wheels and tires). The car tracks straight as an arrow, but wants to turn at the slightest provocation (it also oversteers a bit). Having driven the car more I've acclimated to it somewhat, but it still requires more attention to steering than I'm comfortable with (I feel if I remove my eyes from the road for an instant I could end up in the bushes). I have no answer for you Michael, but will be very interested in your solution (should you find one). Our car had excessive negative camber when we bought it, and we could not figure out why--the frame is straight--so we installed adjustable shock plates. We set toe and camber to the best of our ability with tape measure and a digital level but, obviously, we need a shop to go over it. I plan to do that when I get a chance. I posted my problem to the email list, and the preponderance of responses pointed to toe.

On another note, I have had serious handling issues due to tires, defective or otherwise. If all else seems right that would be my guess.
 
Michael,
It may not be in the front end. A few years ago I had a wandering problem and suspected various elements of the front steering & suspension. Found nothing out of spec. After months of trying to figure it out (and even thinking it might be my imagination since these cars all wander compared to new cars), I happened to be under the rear prying on things looking for anything loose and found the left rear spring was moving in the front (fixed) end. On disassembly, I found the rubber bushing in the front of that spring had disintegrated - as in gone, no evidence of it at all. This allowed about an 1/8 to 3/16 movement, thus allowing rear-steer. After finding this I realized that there had been a noticeable change in direction when going from on the throttle to off the throttle, but it had been subtle enough I didn't make the connection in my mind. After new bushings, wander gone. So, again, the problem might not be in the front.
Good luck,
Dave
 
The only time I have had the feeling described from your drive it was because I was in the process of getting a flat tire. Not saying that you wouldn't notice a low tire but I had driven somewhere and was coming home on the freeway at night and it just felt mushy. I stopped to look at everything and saw no obvious issues and decided to continue on home on the feeder roads. By the time I got to within a few miles of my house it was bad enough for me to realize I had a flat tire going on and pulled over and changed it by the light of my cell phone (no street lamps where I live). It was just sort of a "floaty" feeling prior to the steering getting heavy and the car starting to wander. I felt a bit thick headed because I didn't realize it right away.
 
I don't mind tearing things apart but I simply want to know I am headed in the right direction--no play on words intended.
Michael:
I Think this information can put you on the right track.
 
1/8" toe-in works for me
 
I would jack up the car at the front and have someone wiggle the steering while you look underneath . Look at everything that moves look for play in anything .
 
What is your toe setting? Zero (0") will indeed leave the car a wandering handful!

On the Healey, I run 1/16 to 1/8" toe in.

On the ///M Coupe & Rdstrs, I can get by with 1/32 to 1/16"

When you said it was steady-state once set up for a turn, the toe issue seemed to me, to be the most likely culprit (but why did it suddenly become an issue...?).

Jumping on Dave's bandwagon, loose U-bolts show the same symptoms, and had me nearly restore an entire MGB chassis before figuring that one out (I'll grant you, that was right at 40 years ago, and I've stepped up my game a bit since then ;) )
 
All--

Thanks for all of the great advice. I posted this question over on the Healey newsgroup and got similar input. I first need to nut and bolt the entire front end though a quick pass through it did not reveal any loose shocks, worn tie rod ends, etc. I also need to check toe.

In answer to Gary's question and another poster's experience I have had a relatively recent change from 175-15 Michelin XzX's to 180-15 Michelin XAS's and though I bought and mounted the new tires a while back this was the first significant ride (as in over 50 or so miles) I have taken on the new shoes. It is possible that the XAS, being an asymmetrical tire, might have different handling characteristics than did the old XzX's.

In any case I will go through all possibilities and report back. Though my intuition and the suggestions lead me to suspect that the problem lies in other than the steering box itself one never knows!
 
Michael,

I had XaS tires on my Fiat 124 Spyder and on my Bugeye. They were my favorite tires ever, but they weren't the new ones that were made in Serbia (?) I think. In chasing a fault, I always head back to the last change I made. Do you have any Healey person local that can swap you some wheels and tires for a day. If not, I'll meet you at Lime Rock in the fall. :jester:
 
Michael, It appears that you have checked your front pretty well but I would make some additional checks. Your kingpins which have upper and lower bushings in them instead of "ball joints" could be loose and you may not be able to detect it by pulling on the wheels. I use a bar to get between the kingpins (on MGs they are called swivel pins) and the back side of the spindles to try to induce movement in the bushings. If possible I try to move the bar with one hand and put my other hand right at the point where the kingpin enters the bushing. Your hand will detect movement more than your eye. Also your tie rod ends and steering points for idler and pitman arm may be tight but the steering box could still be loose. With a helper, try to hold the pitman arm stationary while the helper moves the steering wheel to see how much 'play' is in the box. A properly adjusted steering box has play in the centralized position but does get tighter when turned from the centralized position. That could be why the sensation of wandering is not felt in a turn. But I also might suggest that if the sensation feels stable in a turn then I would suspect that the box is not very loose. But the idler box can still have VERY loose bushings. Filling the boxes with appropriate lubricant can reduce the sensation considerably. I do use Penitrite Steering Box Lube, but realising that it is difficult to get it into the box well, I have devised that I bought a cooking marinate injector that looks like a large hypodermic needle, with about a 4" needle. This thing sucks the Penitrite out of the bottle well and injects it all the way to the bottom of the steering box. Having said all of this, I must confess that in all the cars that I have worked on over the years, on the cars that do not have rack & pinion steering , tires are the biggest culprite. And the wider they are the worse they are. Good Luck, Dave.
 
If you take the wheels off the ground don't forget the 2" block under the Armstrong arms

The tension from the wheels hanging free might alter the problem
 
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