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Starting troubles

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beebopbogo

beebopbogo

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My 'B is running the best it ever has in the 7 years I've owned it, but every year it gets harder to start.

It starts fine when the engine is warm, but it's just that initial start of the day that gets it. Typical scenario:

3:00pm, 60 deg F (15 deg C?), first start of the day. Turn the key: "Raower-raower-roawer..." Nothing. Try again:
"Raower-raower-rrrroawer-rrrrrrah - *cough!* raower". Third try:
"Raower-*cough-cough*-raower...rrrrraower" And the battery is dead.

The only way to get it running is to jump the thing and spend copious amounts of juice from my Saturn's battery to finally get it to "cough-cough-vrooOOOOmmmmm!" After running, even for only a few seconds, I can turn it off and restart like a dream, first turn of the starter.

Scenario two: Drive it to work. Let it sit 8 hours in 40 deg F (5 deg C?) weather. Come back out and "VrooooOOOmmmm!", first try. I don't get it. Seems like 8 hours of sitting in the day would be the same as 8 hours over night.

Maybe it gets scared at night and has to get over the bad-dream trauma before it wants to get up and go again. I dunno... Any thoughts?

Adam

P.S. Could it have anything to do with the spark plugs freezing overnight, or the oil being cold, or the viscosity of the oil? I'm using 10W-40, by the way.
 
Hi, try this press the gas pedal down a few times before starting, also i suspect you have a bad alternator, does the ignition light stay onfor any period of timeafter you start. good luck
 
I've tried every possible combination of accelerator pumping, choke positions, and crossings of the fingers. I've had 7 years to try... Starts fine with starter fluid, by the way.

As for the alternator, I don't think that's it either. When I jump it, it still takes a long time to get it to cough and eventually start. I think any battery would run out of juice after all the cranking I have to do. I also tried disconnecting the battery overnight to rule out an electrical leak.

Any other leads? Distributor? Or even better, does anyone have any good testing ideas to rule out causes I haven't even thought of yet?
 
Have you checked the fluid levels in the battery? Maybe the battery is nearing the end of it's life span? Have you checked your plugs for fouling? What about the coil? The plug wires? (I had a problem with my plug wires that made cold starting excedingly difficult, but it would start fine after the engine had been warmed a bit, and it got progressively worse over about a year's time.) Check for signs of wear on the distributor cap, rotor, and points?

[ QUOTE ]
Starts fine with starter fluid, by the way

[/ QUOTE ] Have you let the car set for bit with the ignition switched on to give the pump some time to refill the float bowls before attempting to start it? Are the float bowls draining over night? Is the choke actually ... erm ... choking?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is the choke actually ... erm ... choking?

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point, I think the choke was originally automatic. If it is now manual & the conversion is not adjusted to give full choke, it will be very hard to start when cold. If it is not converted, the auto choke may still not be closing enough. The engine is not as cold when sitting for 8 hours as overnight. The starter fluid also indicates this may be the trouble. Pumping the pedal has no effect on this type of carb. The other possibility as mentioned, is that the float bowls are draining over night.
D
 
I would definately invest in a trickle charge system to plug it into at night. I got one on Ebay for $12 and it has done wonders for my early morning starts...just a little more juice has made the old girl kick over with enthusiasm!

Bruce
 
Here is another thought, maybe you have a small short somewhere that is draining the battery overnight.

60F is not cold. That is summer up here!
 
Beebop, it looks like you have a late B so you have the resistor in the coil circuit and it's gone bad. To check this get a jumper wire with clips and run it from your coil pos. to the fuse box on a white wire and see what happens first thing in the morning. AS ALWAYS, look for a spark or smoke when jumping over other circuits. Wayne
 
Wow! Thanks for all the hints. I'll get crackin' on all the above comments and see if I can't track down the problem. Thanks all.
 
Hi Adam...my B does the same if it sits for a couple of weeks. I've resorted to using starting fluid also. I can't quite get the 'feel' of starting it when it hasn't run for that long. In the meantime, if I were you, I'd not crank until you kill the battery - that is not only bad for the battery but needlessly taxes the starting motor and wiring - as you already know the expected outcome (a car that isn't going to start). That is why I've resorted to the starting fluid. But, with the suggestions given here, I am going to try to experiment myself, so thanks for the thread and the ideas!
 
Dave has a good point. I just reverted back to the Zenith Stromberg Dual auto choke carbs (coolant-type) on the '75 XJ6C. I couldn't immediately find the proper ports to hook them up, so I decided to try out the new carbs. It took starting fluid and a second person to crank the car and rev it to what sounded like 3000 rpm to get the engine to start and stay running. As soon as he let off the gas pedal, the Jag immediately died, every time. I called the mechanic who rebuilt the set and he said without the chokes in operation (in your case maybe the choke is stuck), the car will be extremely difficult if not impossible to start cold. Check your choke, if all other tests fail. Good luck.

Brian /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
Hmmm, good point on the wear and tear on the starter... But I've also heard that a "starter-fluid junky" like my B will eventually kill itself from the inside out (Much like any other junky for that matter). I guess the starter fluid washes all lubricant from the cylinder walls, ruining the block after time. Hence, I am putting my B into an intensive rehab program using the Cold Turkey technique. We are still trying to work this thing through together, but it's tough going. Good thing we have these group meetings every week.
 
If it starts right up with starter fluid, but not without, sounds like it could be a fuel problem doesn't it? What kind of carb(s) do you have on the car? What kind of choke?
 
[ QUOTE ]
If it starts right up with starter fluid, but not without, sounds like it could be a fuel problem doesn't it? What kind of carb(s) do you have on the car? What kind of choke?

[/ QUOTE ]

One would think so. I know I did. I chased a phantom mixture and choke problem for weeks. My '76 'B would not start cold, and when I did get it to run I had to rev it up to 3K to keep it running until warm. Then one day while checking the plugs for the thousandth time I decided to check the wires. I found the Coil to distributor line had corrosion on one of its terminals and once replaced all was well... All those carb tutorials I've read weren't kidding, make sure the electricals are in order before looking at the carb...
 
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