• Hi Guest!
    If you appreciate British Car Forum and our 25 years of supporting British car enthusiasts with technical and anicdotal information, collected from our thousands of great members, please support us with a low-cost subscription. You can become a supporting member for less than the dues of most car clubs.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

Spitfire Starting my 1500 Spitfire

Share this page

T

tomkatb

Senior Member
Offline
I have owned my 77 Spitfire since forever.

For as long as I can remember it has been slow to start.

I.E. I have to turn the key 6-10 times when it is cold. It seems to fire once then the starter disengages. I have tried all types of timing, carbs etc. The engine was recently professionally rebuilt.

When it is warm it starts instantly.

Is this perhaps a starter issue?

Larry
 
Hi, Larry -

Sounds like a choke issue to me. And I believe the starter should disengage when it fires; otherwise it would be engaged while the engine is running. Not a good thing, I reckon!

Mickey
 
Mickey's correct. Re-adjust your choke settings, or buy a manual choke conversion for your carb. Eventually your starter is going to quit.
 
Larry, yes, it''s a starter issue. When I was driving my '63 Midget year round, in cold weather I had the same issue. Half a revolution and the starter would kick out. A new starter drive cured the problem.
Jeff
 
My 1500 has dual SU HS4's.

The choke has been set properly, I think, on the carbs. It does what it is supposed to.

Jeff
I was leaning towards that starter thing. Since the car also did it with the single Stromberg.

Did you put in a gear reduction starter?

Larry
 
Larry, I installed a gear reduction starter on the race Spit 1500. All my street cars are still Lucas, original style.
I've got a bunch of the starters, so may as well use them up.
Make sure all the connections are clean and tight. Low voltage to the starter can caause it to kick out early, too.
Jeff
 
tomkatb said:
...I have to turn the key 6-10 times when it is cold. It seems to fire once then the starter disengages. I have tried all types of timing, carbs etc. The engine was recently professionally rebuilt.

When it is warm it starts instantly.

Is this perhaps a starter issue?
Click to expand...
I'm wondering if it's actually an ignition switch (or circuit) issue? Is it possible that the ignition circuit somehow is being disabled partially or completely while the key is in START position? or perhaps the ballast resistor circuit isn't properly coming into play to give you the full 12v to the coil for starts (and then to the 6v to the coil for normal running)?

Just some thoughts....
 
Does the stock starter on a 77 Spit still use a Bendix ? This sounds exactly like what my TR3A would do when it was very cold or otherwise didn't want to run. One cylinder would fire, kicking the Bendix out of gear, and then the next cylinder (or three) wouldn't fire; leaving the engine stopped and the starter spinning uselessly.

As Andy suggests, I'd double-check that the ballast is being bypassed while cranking; and that you have a "external ballast required" type coil. Also anything else that would make it hard to start, like chokes not synchronized, point gap too small, etc.

Might be a starter problem (a weak/slow/binding starter motor is less able to hold the Bendix in gear), but I had it happen on different engines and different starters, so I believe it's the nature of a Bendix at least to some extent. But a "gear drive" starter would solve it, since they use a solenoid to engage the drive pinion with the flywheel instead of a Bendix mechanism.
 
Yes it has the 77 bendix.

My electrical system has been re wired using an Allison ignition and no ballast resistor, I am confident this is not the issue as the car has been this way for years.

The starter routine is as described by Randall and Yoda.

I am beginning to believe it is the starter.

Larry
 
Forgive me if I'm being dense here (I'm pretty good at that at times! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif ), but going back to Larry's original question, how come there's only a problem when the engine's cold?
 
Because everything else is cold, too, Mickey. If there is grease on the starter drive, (a no-no)it becomes gummy in the cold. When warm it is less glue-like.
As I said, I had the identical problem on a Midget, and a new starter drive cured the problem.
Jeff
 
Ah, so! Temp was sort of a red herring, then! At least it sent me off in another direction.
 
No, I don't think the temp was a red herring, it's key to the problem in my warped, frozen, mind! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Jeff
 
No red herring.

The car is slow to start when cold(below 55). When warm(after the start) it starts as well as any car in North America.

During the summer it is an easy starter 2-4 seconds.

I have tried timing from 5-12 degrees and there is no difference.

It did this with my 150 stromberg. With the stromberg after the manual choke. Now with the dual HS4's.

Last year it was rebuilt by a professional.

I thought it was timing or the choke. I do not any more.

Larry
 
Hmmm, I never had this problem with my Midget 1500 years ago, but I seem to have this problem for the last couple of weeks in my Spitfire 1500. One odd thing, though, is that the engine never, ever starts as long as I'm cranking the starter... it only fires and starts when I release the key. This was true a month ago when it was 20 degrees warmer, but it only required 2-3 seconds of cranking before it would roar to life. Lately it has been requiring 15-30 seconds of cranking (temps hovering right around freezing) before starting, and last night I couldn't get it to fire at all. I was beginning to wonder if the mysterious "previous owner" who rewired the fuse box took a short cut and put the ignition on the accessory circuit, with no power while the starter is engaged....

So what's this about a ballast resistor? My car has an old CDI ignition module, with an aftermarket coil and its resistor. I've seen the same sort of setup on most British cars built between 1970-1990, and never wondered about it. What is the purpose of the resistor? How can I check mine?

Scott
 
OK, I had enough spare time after dinner to do my own search and "reacquaint" myself with the purposes of the various ignition components. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif In other words, it has been several decades since junior high metal shop where I got my basics drilled into me. The best, clearest explanation in on a great web page all about ignition systems at https://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html . Thank you all for not flaming me for my forgetfulness.

Scott
 
That's a good writeup you found on ignition systems.
I believe the section about the "Ballast Resistor" is the bit you need to look at. I've had problems exactly like yours when the resistor went bad, the engine would not catch until the key was released to the run position.
It could also be a problem with the ignition switch which controls whether to route the voltage directly (at 12V nominal) to the coil or through the resistor (during normal engine running operation) at reduced voltage.
I think you need to get busy with a wiring diagram and a digital multimeter to find the problem. Start by measuring the voltage between the coil +ve terminal and ground while you are cranking the engine, it should get the full battery voltage.
 
Back
Top