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Starter sticking on...?

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peterh

Freshman Member
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Hi,

My '60 BT7 has been running well upto yesterday. Once I had switched off the car (have to stall stop it as it deisels)I heard something still going in the engine compartment. The only way I could stop it was to disconnect the battery. I'm fairly certain that it is the starter motor that was still running. After disconnecting and reconnecting the battery it didn't come back on. Things look ok again this morning but after driving for only about 5 minutes around the block the same problem occured.

Any thoughts and what to do and what damage might this have done to anything else?

Happy '05 - Peter.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

I heard something still going in the engine compartment. The only way I could stop it was to disconnect the battery. I'm fairly certain that it is the starter motor that was still running. After disconnecting and reconnecting the battery it didn't come back on. Things look ok again this morning but after driving for only about 5 minutes around the block the same problem occured.
--------------------------

Peter--

Give us some more information: What did it sound like?
Could you hear it when the eninge was running and you were driving? I can't imagine, were the starter engaged for very long, that it would still be working. Maybe it is the solenoid clicking? Fill us in please.
 
ok - I could not hear it with the engine running but once turned off it was a loud continious noise like something was turning quickly. I looked under the hood and it sounded like it was coming from the starter motor. I just took it out to try and do it again and of course if wouldn't work but my battery is totally run down and it wouldn't start - had to bump start it to get it going. in the spirit of full disclosure my other problem at the moment is that the car is coughing up a lot of coolant from the overflow. I use 50/50 green and it seems to leave a good puddle where ever we go. I don't think they are related problems but you never know. Does that help?
 
I could not hear it with the engine running but once turned off it was a loud continious noise like something was turning quickly. I looked under the hood and it sounded like it was coming from the starter motor.

Peter--

I'm not clear on whether you got your car running initially by using the starter but if there is a noise from it after you turn off the ignition key then perhaps your solenoid is somehow being continuously energized and is keeping the starter engaged. With low voltage it might just be spinning over the pinion without engaging the ring gear, though neither it or the solenoid are rated for continuous use and should have smoked after a short period of continuous running. Or is it possible you're hearing an electric fuel pump?

Where are you located in Florida--I'm now in Miami.
 
If the starter was still running and engaged wouldn't the car move if you put it in gear? Could it be the heater moter? Do you have an electric fan cooler assist? Do you not have the (darn)battery shut-off? It would be easier than disconecting the battery.
 
I don't think that this is a very common problem. First, & most important, the starter is being energized when the engine is running. Possible causes are a sticking or shorted starter solenoid on the side panel above the starter. Possibly the starter button or associated wiring are shorted which is causing the starter solenoid to remain energized. If the problem is the starter button circuit, you could lift the small wire on the solenoid, while it is "doing it". If this doesn't cure the problem, the starter solenoid itself is either shorting across it's main contacts Or it's plunger is sticking. Probably best to replace the solenoid, although you "might" be able to free up a sticky plunger.

TH, the starter can be running without being engaged to the flywheel. Either when trying to start or after starting.

The starter is constructed so that the "Bendix" drive moves the starter pinion gear into engagement with the flywheel when the starter motor rotates. This type of drive relys on the inertia of the pinion against the matching spiral grooves on it's shaft to move it into engagement with the flywheel ring gear. Once the engine is running faster than the starter, the gear thrust reverses & moves the pinion back on the spiral & out of engagement even though the starter motor is still running. If this IS the case, you would likely hear the starter motor running & a light clash between the flywheel ring gear & the starter pinion. This actually happens for short durations many times when you don't get off the starter button quickly enough after the engine starts. The starter could last quite a while being continuously energized since it is running at no load. Not a good thing though.

ZBLU, A sticky pinion gear on it's spiral, which happens fairly often do to lack of grease or old dried grease, will cause the pinion to fail to engage the ring gear when you try to start & the starter motor will just free wheel without cranking the engine. Not the case if I interpret the above correctly. So back to my first paragraph.
D
 
Hello all,
I concur with Dave's diagnoses, but a point about bendix drives is that they should not be greased at all. The best lubricant is graphite powder or just leave clean and dry.

Alec
 
Piman:
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Wot you mean you don't use "CopaSlip"!---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif
 
Peterh:Re Coolant problem:
Check; the themostat,Fan belt condition/adjustment and water pump not showing signs of wear or leakage.--FWIW---Keoke
 
May be dynamo still running, especially if fan-belt loose and regulator points stuck. Might also tie in with overheating.
Been there, seen that . .
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hello all,
The best lubricant is graphite powder or just leave clean and dry.
Alec

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Alec,
I passed rather lightly over the grease part. I believe that you are correct that dry is usually best, but there can be a problem of rust on the parts causing sticking also. I think that the Bendix drive inertia/spiral is the weak point on this type of starter because it IS subject to friction or old grease causing it to fail to engage. This may be why most newer cars have gone to the "positive engagement" type of starters. I personally used a very light coat of silicone oil as a rust preventive. As an aside, I have converted to a gear reduction positive engagement type of starter & don't plan on ever having problems again.
D
 
Years ago, my first LBC was a '62 Spitfire. The key would stick in the start position and run the starter even after the engine fired. I was too cheap to fix it, and got in the habit of just clicking the key back to the run position after the thing started.
 
Dave said: "First, & most important, the starter is being energized when the engine is running. Possible causes are a sticking or shorted starter solenoid on the side panel above the starter. Possibly the starter button or associated wiring are shorted which is causing the starter solenoid to remain energized. If the problem is the starter button circuit, you could lift the small wire on the solenoid, while it is "doing it". If this doesn't cure the problem, the starter solenoid itself is either shorting across it's main contacts Or it's plunger is sticking. Probably best to replace the solenoid, although you "might" be able to free up a sticky plunger."
----------------------------

I think we're still missing some information from Pete, but remember that he said the noise was present after the key was shut off. So the problem would not be in the starter button (that's no longer energized when the ignition is shut off) but in the solenoid itself.
 
Guys,

As usual a big thank you for all the information. It will be a couple of days before I can get back to it and I will update you all with what I find.
 
Yep Michael you missed the big "IF", its always the stiff letter in a poor mans pocket book.---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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