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Spitfire Spitfire vs. TR6

SCguy

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Now that I have my TR6 in great shape, I'm considering the possiblity of a spitfire as a project (One that I do all the work on). It seems as though they are a little less expensive with the possiblity of doing some really fun things to them as improvements.

So here's my question... a while back I had a GT6. I did a lot of work to the car, it was fun, but I was never really comfortable in the car. In the summers it was just too hot and at 5' 11' it was uncomfortable as far as head room.

Would I have these same issues in a spitfire? Is a spitfire a step down from a TR6? I used to think so, but now they look like they coud be more fun. Before I spent the $, care to give me your imput?
 
The spit is much slower than the TR6 and the GT6 but its a great car to cruise around in. Because its cheap to buy and maintain it won't be a car you'll be afraid to take out and drive all the time.
 
One of the problems of the Spit is that restoration costs actually can exceed the TR6's, because many of the parts aren't reproduced. Certain parts on a Spit are cheap, but others, like the plastic bumper guards, go for $150 in used shape.

Size-wise, you'll still be cramped, but not quite as badly as in a GT6. I just depends on how you're built.

As for being a "step-down," that's all in your perspective. Performance? TR6 is better. Value? TR6's is higher. Prestige? TR6 gets a slight nod. Fun to drive? Both are fun. Looks? In the eye of the beholder.

If you like it -- go for it!
 
I have a TR6,but wouldn't mind a Spitfire.
Buy the best one that you can afford.This is probably a good time to be buying one.

- Doug
 
Larry,
Why not consider a TR4? You are out there in the land of "black-plate cars" where you might be lucky enough to find a relatively rust-free 4 that is worth salvaging. A Michelloti-
bodied big Triumph would offer you a project with which you are already familiar (the frame and mid-bodies are essentially the same car), better performance (a TR4 is actually hotter than a TR6), more room and value. Not cheap value. A reasonably well restored 4 will have immense resale, especially as the years go by. The body stying is arguably the best that Triumph ever came out with. With some real luck you could find a 250, which are becoming extremely rare. My vote would be a 1967 TR4A IRS.

Bill
 
Generally speaking, I can't agree with Sammy in terms of parts costs. I find parts for a Spitfire generally cheaper than for a TR6, which several friends have, probably because there were a lot more Spitfires made compared to TR6s. Some parts are no longer easy to find but that's true of both cars.

In terms of comfort, Sammy's right, it depends on your build.

Working on a Spitfire is so easy. When you open the front clip the engine and front suspension is completely exposed. I normally just sit on a stool while working in the engine compartment.

The Spitfire was always a cheaper car than the TR6, but they sure are fun. My friends with TR6s put a few miles on their car every summer, but I drive mine as much as I can; I'm not worried about the value decreasing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I had a Spit for my daily driver years ago when it was just another used car. I was about your height and 180 lbs and found entry and exit wasn't much of a problem, and it was comfortable enough once settled.

It was great fun and I'd like to get another once the current project ceases bleeding the bank account and my wife turns her back....

It won't appreciate like the bigger TRs, but you'll be able to use it far more- I still see Spits and Midgets while the bigger TRs and MGBs keep indoors for the most part, and Healeys and E-types aren't to be seen... a shame really.
 
There are very few parts not available for Spitfires now. SOme odd parts are a little pricey (hard tops and bumpers), but generally they are not too bad. You can actually get people to give you Spitfire parts to get them out of their way.

I think Spits are a lot more fun to drive in the city or suburbia than a TR6. Not so on the open road. A 6 will be worth a lot more money. Spits are starting to creep up in value, as is almost all British cars, but especially convertibles.
 
Since my wife has a late model Spit, and I have owned a TR6, I will try to answer your question.
I am 6ft tall and find that with the top up I need to adjust the seatback to recline a click or two so my head does not touch; no problem with width, I weigh 195lbs, but the Spit is no narrower than a TR6. My wife has a bad back and finds it a little difficult to get in and out because of the low seats, but comfortable once in!
The seat position is lower and the Spit has a lower centre of gravity and is light so feels very agile, almost more of a sports car than a TR6, and has adequate power and acceleration except on long hills. If you want to do a fair amount of highway driving overdrive is a priority.

As Mark mentioned, the car is dead easy to work on, you can actually change the oil and filter or remove and replace the starter motor by sitting on the front wheel and reaching down. Fuses, master cylinders etc. are all out in the open.

The chassis seems pretty resistant to rust, but watch out for the section behind the rear wheels, and check the sills carefully.
Overall a great little car.
Simon.
 
There both nice to drive. I think my 250 is more comfortable over long trips. About 2 hours is the most I can take before I need to stretch my legs. The 250 is similar to "Normal" seating, with the Spitfire it's like you "strap on" on the car and I do drive the the Spit a little "harder". To work on the engine, can't complain about the built in stool, just sit on the tire.
 
Any easy upgrade for a bit more ooph is a set of twin SUs if the Spitfire has a ZS carb. And overdrive sure is nice for cruising on the highway. I wish my other lbc had it.

You're right Simon, they do take a bit of effort to get out of because it is so low to the ground, but comfy once in. I too am 6'0", but my head doesn't quite touch the top; a little different build I guess.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm considering the possiblity of a spitfire as a project....less expensive with the possiblity of doing some really fun things to them as improvements.

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely correct. Lots you can do to "improve" a Spitfire...or you can leave it alone and just enjoy a totally different kind of sports car!

[ QUOTE ]
So here's my question... a while back I had a GT6. I did a lot of work to the car, it was fun, but I was never really comfortable in the car. In the summers it was just too hot and at 5' 11' it was uncomfortable as far as head room.

[/ QUOTE ]Headroom won't be the same problem in the Spit; neither should the heat issue. I never much noticed either problem, but then I'm only 5'6", and the GT6+ in which I spent the most time was Jasmine Yellow (although the seats were black).

[ QUOTE ]
Is a spitfire a step down from a TR6? I used to think so, but now they look like they coud be more fun.

[/ QUOTE ]Apples and oranges, as far as I'm concerned. If anything, it's a step OVER rather than down. More like "sometimes you feel like pizza; other times you feel like a nice meal at a fine restaurant"! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
"better performance (a TR4 is actually hotter than a TR6)"

I've never heard that. Can you provide more info?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he meant more desirable, if you look up the two car in NADA the TR4 is worth slightly more.
 
FYI :

From the VTR site /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

"The Vintage Triumph" Magazine

Triumph Spitfire Buying Guide
In addition to the items listed in the general Triumph Buyers Guide , there are a number of specific items of interest on the Spitfire.

Parts availability for the Spitfire is excellent, with a number of major suppliers providing most parts for the Spitfire, ranging from tune up components and interior kits to most body panels.

There are two stages in checking the quality of a potential Spitfire purchase. Make a list of all the areas you intend to inspect and stick to the list.

First Stage-walk around Body: One of the most important things to watch for on the Spitfire, as with all Triumphs, is rust. Rust coming through the paint generally indicates that there is 5 to 10 times more rust lurking beneath the body panels. Where does one look for rust on a Spitfire, other then everywhere?
Look for areas that have been repainted, especially over possible rust. Is the car the original color? Look closely for body filler and lumps around the fenders and trunk. (If appropriate, lightly run your hand across the finish to feel for small bumps or dents). Be sure to pay particular attention to the following areas:

Under the carpets at the front of footwells, underneath the driver's pedals, and along the seat rails.
Under the bonnet, particularly behind the rear wheels, and at the hinge mounting points where the bonnet is attached to the frame.
In the engine compartment around the battery box, and under the hydraulic master cylinders, where leaking fluids may have removed paint, allowing rust to spread.


Also check the chrome for the the quality of the finish, dents or missing parts. Front windscreen should be free from scratches. Convertible top should fit, back windows clear, studs secure, and stitching firm.

While standing about 10 feet away, check each side of the car for the alignment of the doors. Poor door alignment could indicate a bad frame or rusted rocker panels. Check the front and back for "lean" or suspension/chassis defects. Try bouncing the corners to check the shocks.

Interior: Open and close each door for fit. Look for rust and check color. Check the rocker panels for rust/repair. Examine door panels and raise/lower windows. Test locks. Upholstery on seats should be free from cracks. Check under seats for disintigrating seat foams. Slide seats forward and back. Check the carpet for wear. Sneak a peek under the front carpet for floorboard rust, replacement for damage. Cracked dash? Look for the original steering wheel, ash tray, map light, glove box compartment(s). Seatbelts should be attached and not excessively worn. Spare tire and jack?


Electrical: There are no particularly unusual electrical problems on the Spitfire, other than the typical problems common to nearly all British cars. Check all lights and plastic parts for damage. Be sure to test headlights (bright/dim), turn signals, backup, and brake lights.
Second Stage-More detail


Body fit: Open the bonnet latches and check fit, dents, or twisting. Look for rust inside around lights and wheel arches. Check A-post for corrosion around attachment to door sill. Open boot and check hinges and edges for rust. Check doors again for proper fit. Look for corrosion in footwells and examine inner sills to floor pan. Check under rear wheel arches.


Mechanical: Check fluids and belts. Start engine and check hand brake, brake and clutch pedals. Listen and look for exhaust problems. Engine should be appropriately clean. Look for oil/water leaks and mystery parts. Listen for knocking, grinding, banging, rattling, or loud ticking.


Test Drive: Try the gears while parked. Move in reverse first. The car should not "jump" out of gear (gearbox). Now try first gear and continue through each gear, checking for smooth opperation. Tire wear can cause the car to pull to one side. Brakes can also pull. Uphill climbing should be without labor. Listen for bearing noise. Check for vibration in the steering wheel.
Prices The prices given below are determined by the author's experience, and are not necessarily indicative of prices in your area.
CONDITION
------------------------------------
Restored - 100% as new, 95 points min concourse
Excellent - mostly restored or superb original
Amateur partly restored, or very good original
Good, complete, runs and drives well
Fair, drivable, needs minor repairs, but complete
Poor, not too incomplete, not badly rusted/damaged
Poor, rough, incomplete, damaged, or badly rusted
Price
------
$6,000
$4,500
$3,000
$2,000
$1,200
$600
$300


Remember, these are values based on a normal (non duress) situation. If you are trying to sell a Spitfire (or any collector car for that matter) in a hurry (i.e. divorce settlements, need immediate cash to close on the new house, etc.) then prices can be lower, especially in winter months in the northern states. Price valuations from appraiser's are usually given to estimate the cost of replacement.

Entire contents copyright 1995-2005 Vintage Triumph Register. It is unlawful to reproduce, transmit, either in analog or digital form, any content contained herein. With some restrictions, VTR chapters and zones may utilize this site's content. Click here for details.

Questions or comments about this site? Please email webmaster@vtr.org.
 
In terms of the step down concern, don't put too much stock in that. While the age-old rankings still roughly hold true today as they did then -- Aston, Jag, Healey, Triumph, MG -- the fact that LBCs are all now a rarity makes this ranking a bit fuzzy. Was the Spitfire an entry level Triumph in the same way that a Sprite was an entry level Healey? Sure. If you saw someone in a Sprite today, though, you wouldn't think about it that way. Some Healey folks consider my TR250 a step down from my 3000 Mk III. Aside from the Auction prices, I think it's apples to oranges, and the TR250 has IRS and a better transmission IMHO! Anyway, if you like the looks of the Spit, go for it! I myself would love a 1968 Spit Mk. III to go with our 250. Anyone selling? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
I've owned both spitfires and TR6's. Enjoyed them both - but two things I thought quite different on them: I had much more fun working on the spit with the accessibility, but I was much more paranoid driving around in traffic with the lower spitfire - sometimes it felt like I was riding a skateboard in traffic which wasn't fun when a semi was trying to change lanes.
 
[ QUOTE ]
"better performance (a TR4 is actually hotter than a TR6)"

I've never heard that. Can you provide more info?

[/ QUOTE ]

Supercars.net provides some performance data for Triumphs. I don't know about the overall accuracy of the information, but the TR4 does have a top speed listed of 110 mph versus a 109 top speed for a TR6.

https://www.supercars.net/Comp?sourceList=1834&CompList=1834-1832

I suppose one could use that information to argue that the TR4 offers better performance; however, performance is a somewhat subjective term, and there are obviously many other factors to consider.

Regardless, as a TR4 owner, I can assure you that the TR4 is a superior car in all respects. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"better performance (a TR4 is actually hotter than a TR6)"

I've never heard that. Can you provide more info?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he meant more desirable, if you look up the two car in NADA the TR4 is worth slightly more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually hadn't heard that the TR4 was worth more, I'll have to check that out. For a long time TR4's were sort of the step child of the body on frame TR's, with 2/3/6 getting the lions share of attention.

As far as performance. The 250's and early 6's had practiaclly the same horsepower as the 4's but had slightly more torque. As more and more emissions were applied to th TR6 the horsepower kept going down. The big six cylinder is also much smoother than the four cylinder. The 4's especially the solid axle cars have a bit less weight to roll around though.

We have to remember that we recieved essentially a castrated TR6 in the US. The Petrol Injected Models had higher compression, a different cam profile and were producing around 150 horsepower. Then the cam profile was changed and the horsepower dropped to 125. Some say this was only a change in horsepower calculation but when the cam and the ratings changed, so did complaints about rough idle quality.

I know through dyno testing that my TR6 is producing right around the 150bhp mark and it will keep up with my stock TR8 and walk away from most other Triumphs. (Because it has /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

Another alternative should you wish to pursue it would be to create or find a Spit6. A Spitfire with either a GT6 (2.0 litre) or TR6 (2.5 litre) six cylinder in the Spitfire Chassis. Use the GT6 bonnet for clearance. You could also use that time to "upgrade" the Spitfire front suspension to the GT6 stuff. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Regardless, as a TR4 owner, I can assure you that the TR4 is a superior car in all respects. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

But certainly not to the ultimate Michelotti Triumph -- the TR-250. Thank you very much. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

Great website by the way. Love the garage cam! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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