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Spitfire Spitfire Brake Upgrade

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pjsmetana

pjsmetana

Jedi Warrior
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All of us with Spits know about the sub par braking ability, stock anyways. I've avoided driving in heavy traffic, highways, or at night (Maryland Deer!) because of the lack of good stopping power. But I don't want to do that anymore! I fully intend to upgrade my brakes to the point of being able to lock them up, if I wanted to, without the ridiculous amount of effort currently required.

Heres the list I've generated so far, let me know if anything should be changed, and maybe personal experience with any of this stuff before I order it.

Slotted Rotors (not cross drilled, I've shattered some on the track with my old, and now wrecked and sold because of it, Integra GS-R)
EBC Greenstuff pads, and rear shoes if I can find some
New rear drums (not putting disks on the rear as of yet)
New Calipers
New Master Cyl
Steel Braided Hoses

I'm also wondering if there is a compatible, and stronger, master cylinder out there that I should get instead of a new replacement.

Thanks guys/gals,
Pete
 
A fairly easy upgrade is to get complete vertical links and front brake/hub assemblies from the GT6. The rotor is 9.7", .7" larger in diameter than that of the Sptfire, and the calipers are much larger. But one relatively cheap way to start is with Kevlar pads in front and shoes in rear. Ted Schumacher (among others) can provide. Then see where you might want to go after that.

That said, I never thought that brakes were a weak point of a Spitfire (other than the lack of power assist does mean developing good leg muscles :wink: )!

Of course, good tires can make lots of difference as well....
 
Rather run Porterfields than EBC, and many of the comments I've read on Greenstuff have been less than glowing.

I've not found the Spitfire brakes to be pathetic or otherwise unable to stop the car, hard. Nor have I ever read that of them in any period reviews of the car.

Canley has the stuff to go to ventilated rotors. You can also try contacting John Kipping and asking him to rexplain it (I've forgotten the parts game for this).
 
Pete, I own a Herald which has the same brakes, and weighs about 100kilos more than the Spit. I have NO problems at all with the brakes and drive rather mountainous roads. You should have no problem at all locking up the brakes (which in NOT the best way to stop a car!) if they are adjusted properly and all the air is out of the system. Even with fairly good tires, your maximum braking rate will be more an issue of tire / road friction than the brake system.

Out of your list the only things I would buy are the EBC pads (or similar) and the stainless hoses. New calipers / MC etc are only needed if you have a problem with the current ones.

I would also get a set of Eazy-bleeders to make it easier to get out ALL of they bubbles from the brake fluid.

Finally, it may be an issue of expectations. Without power brakes you have to push much harder than you may be used to on more modern cars. You could add a power booster if you really want to but I find it doesn't take more than a minute or two to "get used" to the force needed when I go back and forth between the various cars I drive on a regular basis.
 
Porterfields over EBC. Got it! I've heard a lot of good things about them for sure!

I know locking up the brakes is bad way to stop, but to me the brakes on this thing is really hard to find that just before lockup point without really really excessive force. I feel like I'm going to break my seat or snap the pedal off.

This isn't my 1st classic. It not even my 1st spitfire, although I could sorta count is as my 1st spit, as my 1st one got run over by a tow truck 20 minutes after purchase.

So replacing any of that other stuff really wouldn't help?
 
I too have never found the brakes on my Spitfire lacking, in fact I find the brakes very good.

In terms of upgrades I'd suggest giving Ted a call and tell him the system you have now and why you don't like it and ask his opinion. I'll bet he suggests kevlar pads and braided steel brake lines.
 
The stock brakes on my 73 Spit work well. Had to panic stop the other day and had the tires lock up before I realized it. I put new rims and rubber (175/70 13) on the car and really have to get into the brakes to lock up the tires.

I would upgrade to braided steel lines and better pads and see how the brakes feel.


Don R.
 
Look into Wilwood for a mater cylinder. I had to replace one on a MG midget and wasnt going to spend the 250.00. I found a universal for 50.00. They will give you the option of a single or dual line and list the bolt pattern. I was rather impressed when I was done. The other nice option was a remote fill. fit rather nice in the windsheild wiper resevoir.
 
I put EBC greenstuff on my MkI and have been pleased. I got them on sale at TRF. I wouldn't hesitate to use the Porterfields though.

The vacuum booster is an option, but only works on the front brakes. And it doens't make the brakes any stronger or better, just less effort.
 
Good tires, bleed the brakes, deglaze the pads/rotors and shoes drums and you should have very good braking performance.

Tires are the key to brake performance, a lot of people don't grasp that....
 
Thats probably the issue with them right there RonMacPherson! Pads are probably glazed. I haven't taken them off to look yet, but you bet I will when I get home. The brakes feel really really solid, and I've driven old muscle cars when the clutch pedal took 2 legs to push down, and it takes about that much pressure to lock up my Spits brakes as it is right now. Clearly I don't want to lock them up, I just want to have the option with using 1 leg. With it being so stiff I seriously doubt theres air in the lines, but I'll do a fluid flush and be sure of it.

Wilwood Master Cylinder, I'll check that out.

Porterfield Pads and Shoes, this is now on the list instead of EBC.

Steel Braided Hoses, any brand better than another?

Slotted Rotors, no one has said a word about them so I'll keep them on my list.

New Drums, stock or is there better?

DOT4 fluid, I assume Castrol GT LMA?

New Tires with softer rubber, I would like the look of white walls, any objections?

Thanks for all the advice thus far guys/gals!
Pete
 
pjsmetana said:
...The brakes feel really really solid, and I've driven old muscle cars when the clutch pedal took 2 legs to push down, and it takes about that much pressure to lock up my Spits brakes as it is right now. Clearly I don't want to lock them up, I just want to have the option with using 1 leg. With it being so stiff I seriously doubt theres air in the lines, but I'll do a fluid flush and be sure of it.
Click to expand...
While you're at it, you might want to get the car up on stands and try the brakes while an assistant spins wheels in turn. There's always the slim possibility of a frozen caliper or wheel cylinder, although more than likely you'd experience pulling to one side or brake drag (especially with a frozen caliper).

pjsmetana said:
New Drums, stock or is there better?
Click to expand...
Not really, although there are "Al-fin style" brake drums available...at a price. Probably more for the "bling" factor than any real enhancement, but....
 
I'd second Andrew on the stand test or go to a large and <span style="font-weight: bold">very vacant </span>parking lot and try running the car in reverse and locking the brakes up (at speed) this can partially deglaze the rotors/pads as well.
I seem to remeber in other brake threads, alot of poo-pooing on slotted disks as not worth the cost unless you were full race. (less surface area vs added cooling benifits)
Check as well to see if your emergency bake cable is moving freely and evenly

When I lived in your neck of the woods there were so many deer .... they were considering giving them voting rights
 
:iagree:I just replaced my rear drums with stock type & I really dont think theres a major issue of overheating....
 
Too bad Canley Classics doesn't seem to offer "Al-fin" style drums in the 8" size for a GT6. Since that's the same drum as on the front of a Herald, it might almost be a useful upgrade, although probably not a perfect alternative to a front disc brake conversion on the Herald. We "purists," y'know.... :smile:
 
Tomster said:
I'd second Andrew on the stand test or go to a large and <span style="font-weight: bold">very vacant </span>parking lot and try running the car in reverse and locking the brakes up (at speed) this can partially deglaze the rotors/pads as well.
I seem to remeber in other brake threads, alot of poo-pooing on slotted disks as not worth the cost unless you were full race. (less surface area vs added cooling benifits)
Check as well to see if your emergency bake cable is moving freely and evenly

When I lived in your neck of the woods there were so many deer .... they were considering giving them voting rights
Click to expand...

The reverse braking! Why didnt I remember that? I used to do that every weekend after adjusting the brakes on my old 72 beetle. I cant tell you how happy I am to not have to twist those silly star nuts anymore!

Brembo Blanks with Porterfields it is then. That'll save a few pennies.

E-Brake works like a charm. I trust it to park on a hill out of gear with the wheels turned twords traffic.

The Deer in MD are completely overrunning the area. The hunting season needs to be opened for an entire year... its really bad. I can't go 1 day near home without seeing at least a dozen of them. I remember seeing 2 young bucks battling it out in my back yard while it was snowing this January. I'll supply the deer-slugs if anyone feels like thinning out the heard.
 
pjsmetana said:
Slotted Rotors, no one has said a word about them so I'll keep them on my list.

New Drums, stock or is there better?
Click to expand...

slotted rotors are more for the bling factor than any improvement in normal driving.

From what you say about needing to really push hard, I think you do need to take a look to make sure that all the brakes are actually working.

Note that the spit does NOT have self adjusting brakes so hitting the brakes in reverse is not going to activate the non-existent adjusters! I would pull off both drums and make sure that everything is free to move, run a bit of sand paper over the shoes and then put it back together and adjust the brakes.
Also it is not particularly difficult to pull the front pads and make sure they aren't coated with oil / fluid or other crud before you put your new pads in (and possibly ruin them)
It could save you the expense of replacing the pads twice in the same week :madder:
 
I took stock blanks and made my own slots and "dimples", green stuff pads, stock rears. The boss was happy I was learning to program our CAD mill on my own time.

There are no self adjusters in the back of the early ones.

If you want to upgrade, put the GT-6 spindles rotors and calipers on the front.

Later GT-6 rears self adjusted ( I think, and maybe later spits too), but it doesn't add anything in my book.

The stainless brake lines reduce pedal "squish" during braking and add some shiney bits under the hood.

If your brake parts are glazed, some 220 wet/dry paper and some elbow work fixes that.

Don't forget that these brakes aren't boosted, and are designed for tires with a lot less grip that what is available today.

My two coppers.
 
71MKIV said:
Later GT-6 rears self adjusted ( I think, and maybe later spits too), but it doesn't add anything in my book.
Click to expand...
Only the 1973 model GT6 had self-adjusting rear brakes (also a bit wider than earlier GT6 brakes); no Spitfire ever did. And some of those late GT6 rear brake bits are getting scarce, which is not the case with earlier GT6 rear brakes or Spitfire rear brakes.
 
I have owned my 77 Spit since 79 and the stopping has never been an issue. I could always put a pickup in the trunk anytime I wanted to.

As this car is 30+ a few things have needed to be replaced.

I think that if you replace the hoses, pads with low tech pads, rear cylinders, LMA bake fluid, rebleed and use a quart of fluid then you may be surprised.

After properly adjusting the rears and replacing the tires if they are more than 8 years old you too can have a truck in your trunk. Brake parts will be less then $150 unless the calipers are bad then another $100 or so.

All this needs to be completed anyway.

My car as an example will stop straight in a panic with no hands on the wheel. Even in water.

The rears lock up first. It takes a lot of effort to lock the fronts.

If you are not happy with this then the other stuff is easy to add.

I can assure you on an MG Greenstuf, slotted discs and rear discs will do nothing but, drain your wallet except perhaps on a race car. I am not as sure on the Spit.

Larry
 
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