single stage PPGpaint for Healey

[BJ7archaeologist]

Healeyoids,
I'm in the process of finishing up my bodywork and I have made some changes to how and what I will use for paint and I was wanting some input. Originally, I was going to do a two-stage base-clear system but changed my mind. My brother in law, who paints lots of old cars from the 60s recommended that I change to a single stage acrylic enamel PPG paint. That way, the color will be more brilliant and have more depth and the pigment will be closer to the surface. The PPG single stage has UV protection in it too. Also, the single stage will let us touch up any scratches or nicks that incure while hanging the panels back on as ewll as any nicks and scratches in the future.

The car has been guide-coated and block sanded several times and is nearly ready to shoot. What I was planning on doing was the following:

1.) Remove fenders, doors, hood and trunk.
2.)Shoot everything with single stage Colorado Red
3.)Sand out or rub out any imperfections, reshoot problem areas if any.
4.) Bolt and hang panels back on the car. Insert fender beads. Line up the swage lines and gaps.
5.) Reshoot any nicks or scratches.
6.) Mask off the top paint and tape the swage lines and shoot the black on the bottom half of the car.

What do you think about this sequence and the single stage paint? This is what my bother in law wants to do and he restores and shoots a lot of old cars. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Randy Dickson
Healey-Archaeologist
63 BJ7
66 427 Cobra replica
06 Mini Cooper S

 

[RestoreThemAll]

I was also planning on using the clear-base method. Then while picking up my daughter's Matrix from the body shop I asked the shop owner about painting my BJ7. He restores German cars as a hobby. He suggested that I use PPG single stage urethane. I used it for the chassis and it looks real nice but not too nice. Wouldn't want to over restore it. It can also be clear coated later, though he cautioned against waxing then adding clear.

Are you concerned about concours judging?

Dale

 

[HEALEYJAG]

Wow ..you will probably get a lot of different opinions on this.....as an old school lacquer guy.....I was taught.

1. always shoot the car with the panels ON the car..that way there will be a perfectly even distribution of paint and no color differences from one panel to another. I notice on a lot of cars that the doors and fenders are a slightly different shade of color from off the car spraying.

2. I like a clear coat system because you will have an identical layer of color UNDER the clearcoat.. If you sand the color coat there may be thinner areas and hence their might be a color difference again.

3. Have had no touble touching up any paint with the basecoat/clearcoat system...


Best of Luck


Pete

 

[beaulieu]

my friend is a car magazine editor ,

often he shoots cars that were painted with the panels off the car , and worse the panels were painted standing up etc.

He calls them Palaminos , as you can tell which panel was painted in which direction ,

If you are going to paint off the car, mount the doors in the same direction as they are on the car,

that way the pigments line up the same way,
especially of you are using a metalic

Thats all I know !

 

[DougF]

My experience with PPG urethane is mixed. The final product looks great and has held up well after six years.
On the other hand, it (Omni) took three coats to cover. I have nearly three gallons of paint on my TR6. On the hood, I wet sanded through to the next coat and it left rings so I had to reshoot. This happened a couple of times, hence the three gallons.
I wish I had cleared it because the paint fades quickly in the summer sun. I have to buff it out twice a year to maintain the shine.
I've never shot enamel, but I know it is less harmful to your lungs than urethanes.

 

[vette]

Randy, I used to shoot alot of arcrylic enamels before I went to base/clear systems. For what you were saying the first thing that entered my head was that with a single stage system if you paint two colours, you will have a diffinate edge where you taped off the 1st colour. Yes you can hide it somewhat where there is a body crease and it will deminish over time as the car is rubbed, washed and waxed, but you still can feel it. With base/clear, you can bury that edge in the clear coat.
- If you are using a non-metalic solid colour, you can paint the panels anyway you want and the only thing that might make them show anything other than perfection is the skill of the painter.
- base clear is probably as easy to touch up scratches and nicks as single stage systems, and maybe easier, depending on the opinion of the individual painter.
- Single stage ureathanes are probably the hardest, of the three systems, to get a high quality finish with because they flow out like clear and will need alot of wet sanding and buffing (for a really smooth finish) and there-by possible sand through on the colour. Single stage ureathanes were originated as a quick production method to paint a car yet had something near the durability of the clear coat. Even though enamels can pose sand thru problems, they flow out much easier and a good painter can flow it like glass and it doesn't need as much wet sanding if any before buffing.
- base/clear is the most durable and the depth of shine can't be beat. That's what it was designed for. Smog, acid rain, UVs, what have you, it will withstand it better than any. (i do understand some preference for a finish that is not as glossy or deep, believing it is closer to original), but given the durabiliy factor, I almost can't make myself spray enamel anymore, and if I am doing a car that I want to stand out, I won't waste my time with single stage ureathane. The chances of uneven colour after buffing are too great.
- I guess in the end, if I want to try to duplicate an authentic shine, I would go with enamel, and alot of coats because you will need themm.
- If I want the best possible, deep, high gloss, most durable finish, I would do base/clear.
Just an opinion from some old muc, ity, muc way over here on the right coast. Good Luck.

 

[Dave Russell]

My painter told me that if you don't clear coat the modern urethanes, they don't hold up very well. He used a PPG Urethane DCC plus clear coat.

When he recently repainted a single panel, it's undetectable from the 30 year old Delstar catalized urethane paint on the panels surrounding it.
D

 

[Bob Claffie]

I used black single stage urethane on my Cobra replica and after four years is as glossy as new. Very satisfied. This past fall I painted my 100/6 with single stage (almost) Healey blue. Not a happy camper. A lot of shadows and slight differences in finish. Painted with most panels OFF the car. Big mistake. Haven't decided yet if it's worth putting on another layer to make it all the same color. My suggestion, along with the others is assemble it before painting. Bob

 

[vette]

Dave, your painter is a good one. He obviously is very good at colour matching and the other paint on your car must not be oxidised much. A good buff all the way around and it looks great.
On my Vette I painted it 24 years ago with acrylic enamel with a hardener catalyst(solid red) and about 5 years ago my daughter got the front end smashed by a hit and run driver. I repainted the front end with base/clear and blended it across the doors on both sides and you can't see it at all. But I buff the enamel part every year to keep it as shiney as the front end.
Bob, The Healey Blue is metallic right. Big difference from spraying a solid colour. But it can be done.

 

[Johnny]

Well Randy I admire your diligence in painting your own car.
I only have a few suggestions I've learned over the years from various paint shops, never painted a car myself.

Use the base/clear systems.
Paint the car assembled.
Put the fender beading on leaving it "stick up" and well taped before painting.
Above all else, trial fit the windshield before you paint the car.

Just my opinion.

 

[zblu]

Used a 2 pak about 15 yrs ago, had a cyanide component, probably banned now, covered well, beautiful glossy finish, but if the primer coat cover was not perfect every blemish showed.
Used PPG for my Healey, panels done off car in heat room,not sure but I think heat was used to make paint cure properly, had probs with the SAAB re clear coat repairs, so I stay away from that and metallic is hard to copy over here due to sun fade.
Personally I used enamel on my bug, couple of coats and gotta sand the bugs/dust out cos it takes time to go off and I know I gotta buff it now and again,but it goes on thick and hides some of the imperfections in the primer coat

 

[John_Progess]

I have only painted one car, my MGTF with single stage PPG DCC paint in a solid BRG. It came out great, first timers luck! I plan to paint my BJ8 Healey blue and white so I am interested in comments by people who have been here before. I don't have the time or money to learn from my own experience so I rely on others. I would very much like to talk on the phone with someone who has painted his car, what is a correct sequence, how to paint inside, assemble car, paint outside, paint next color, timing etc. From the comments it sounds like base/clear is the way to go with metalics. I have never painted metalics and I am concerned with blotches. My other two MGA's are base/clear. I helped, but someone else shot the final color/clear and it was quite a long process. I am in the body repair stage(applying lead to damaged panels) so paint is still 6 months out. Thanks and have a good day!

John

 

[Bob Claffie]

John, one of the tips I picked up from my paint supplier was how to spray the metallics. Never spray back and forth or up and down. Spraying on a diagonal pretty much eliminates the "tiger stripes".

Yes, it is more difficult but not insurmountable. Keep the gun well shaken to help the metallic stay in suspension. Spray many thin coats. A monkey could spray single stage. Since I switched from acrylic enamel runs have become non-existent, it really goes on that easy. Sorry no experience with BC/CC.

A good respirator must be on top of your list of things to buy. My paint guy refused to sell me the urethane unless also got a respirator. Likewise, long sleeve shirt, goggles, hat-- anyway, you get the picture. Bob

 

[glemon]

I would go for the single stage paint, I am currently taking a body shop" class, mostly if focuses on modern methods and "production painting" time is money faster is better.

While most everybody paints with basecoat clearcoat these days I would not and have not in the two cars I have painted.

One reason, as others have stated, I think a clear coat is "too shiny" and the car will not look like it did when original.

Second reason I try to do a good job, but my prep work will not be perfect, the shinier the finish the more evident the imperfections.

Kind of a corrolary to this if my base coat does not go on perfect I am not putting another coat over it.

Three--I assumed that repeair would be more complicated, they told me in the shop class that if you do a spot repair on a clearcoated panel you need to reclear the entire panel.

I just see it as an added step whith the only benefit being added gloss or shine, a new paint job is shiny enough without it in my opinion.

My car I painted with the stuff over 15 years ago still holds it shine well and has not degraded.

Lastly, Omni is the low cost cousin made by PPG, from what I understand, again from my class, it is much cheaper, will look good but may not hold up as well or color match oem as well. Maybe it doesn't cover as well either.

My two cents, I have had this discussion with many of my club members that do their own body work and painting or closely watch and determine how the painter will do it.

The majority go with the clearcoat, but I have also found a few that agree with me.

 

[jyjim]

if your going to paint it and you are a hobbyist i recommend lacquer lot's of states still sell it AZ. NV. it is so forgiving and it's a snap to repair all the environmentally friendly paints are a nightmare.
example; i chiped a neighbor's car down low on the dog leg (that little strip of metal between the rear wheel and the rear door) it was a chip about as big as a match head the car was plain white = $1800 i wish i were joking. spray booth, hasmat suit, lot's of paint, paper and polishing, had the car been lacquer it would have taken about the same amount of paint as the wife uses on her toe nails ! and about the same amount of time. using environmentaly "not quite as bad" paint doesn't help the world if you have to use 1000X more of it.
back to painting: NO wet sanding, primer sucks up water and you'll have blisters in a year or so. spray wet coats of color with high grade non-penetrating thinner using a "tack rag" between coats to clean any over spray. 5 or 10 coats good coverage let dry. NOW you can wet sand with 400-600 grit to flatten any orange peel then 2-4 coats of color with high grade slower thinner. if you do a good job a little hand polishing will be all that's needed.
if you use clear; if your color is ice blue make sure your clear isn't yellow-ish. check with House of Kolors (ebay or Eastwood) about clears. when your done put the leftover paint in a smaller can and top it off with lacquer thinner it's good for ever. keeping spare paint, fenders and highchair your odds of not needing then are better.

 

[BJ7archaeologist]

Healeyoids,
Thanks, for the replies on painting my 63 BJ7. It looks like we are going to paint my Healey next weekend. We are going to use a PPG Delfeet enamel paint,..if I understand my brother in law correctly. I'm going to leave the fenders on except the hood, trunk and doors. I'm going to put the beads in and leave them about 1/2 inch high in between tightened fenders. We will lay a few coats on then tighten the fenders down. I do not want to remove my body panels because every time that I do and reinstall them they change and I have to push and pull on them to get them to fit and sometimes skim putty cracks. I already have the underside painted with PPG Omni. That paint does not have as much pigment and it takes a lot of layers to cover, but it is fine for the frame and underside. I will keep you posted and let you know what happens. I may post some pics too. My Healey buddy Karl who was in Iraq for the past year is back and he is going to help my. He has a 1960 BT7. We are going to consume a lot of beer and steaks while we work on Healeys this coming weekend. I may not be sober enough to report back for a few days.
Thanks again!

Randy
Healey-Archaeologist

63 BJ7
66 427 Cobra replica
06 Mini Cooper S