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TR2/3/3A Ring and Pinion Wear?
- Thread starter karls59tr
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TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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I just do a visual inspection; never found any that were too badly worn to use unless the damage was obvious (gouges, rust pits, missing teeth, etc).
These show some signs of wear, but ran smoothly for 10K miles or so (until the car was sidelined for other reasons).
These show some signs of wear, but ran smoothly for 10K miles or so (until the car was sidelined for other reasons).
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The ring and pinion are probably the ruggedest parts of the car. It's unlikely that you would have high wear or failure, unless something nasty has been done to them, like running without oil. I just finished rebuilding my differential, which had been run without oil for some time. The problem, however, was corrosion, not wear--so that gives you some idea of how rugged they are. Even two of the four bearings weren't too bad; the other two, however, were goners.
If you really feel the need to check it, I'd start by feeling for backlash at the flange. The spec is 4-6 mils at the edge of the ring, which is really small--you should just barely feel it at the flange. If you feel more than a few mils, that's an indication of a problem. But even then, it's more likely to be a bearing than the gears themselves.
If you really feel the need to check it, I'd start by feeling for backlash at the flange. The spec is 4-6 mils at the edge of the ring, which is really small--you should just barely feel it at the flange. If you feel more than a few mils, that's an indication of a problem. But even then, it's more likely to be a bearing than the gears themselves.
TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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Don't forget though, unless you have the carrier locked down somehow, the backlash at the pinion will include that caused by clearance (and wear) in the two pairs of thrust washers. That's far more than the backlash between ring & pinion (which is one of the parameters you adjust when assembling the axle).
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Well, OK, that's true, but I was thinking about backlash as the term is used in the shop manual: the amount you can move the gear between contacts with adjacent gears, without moving the carrier. It's easy to feel in my empty differential, but I admit it might be more difficult if the differential has oil in it.
CJD
Yoda
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I’ve only dealt with one set that was worn out. For some reason a worn ring and pinion will whine at 30, 60, 90mph (and I assume 120, but I have never tried that!). The set I had made noise at those speeds. The gears looked good, but the contact pattern could not be set to look nice, like Randall’s picture. I attempted several times to reset the pinion and ring shims to improve the contact pattern, but no matter what I tried, it still whined and the pattern was spread too far across the tooth.
So, I know of no way to tell a worn set other than to install it and check the pattern. If the pattern won’t set right, then you know!?!
So, I know of no way to tell a worn set other than to install it and check the pattern. If the pattern won’t set right, then you know!?!
I had something unusual happen to the rear end in my 1955 TR-2. I was in college and headed to Daytona Beach for Spring Break. In Northern Ga. I ran into a heavy rain storm; didn't bring my side windows on the trip. After the storm passed, I started back and my wheels started to slide in the mud. All of a sudden I heard a crunch and the car came to a quick stop. When I tried to start again, it was like being out of any gear. Left it at a All Night gas station; people were honest back then. After towing it back to Atlanta, I removed the rear end cover plate and discovered a hand full of spider and axle gears along with teeth missing in the ring and pinion gears. I replaced all the bad parts and things were back to normal. Next Spring Break, I was careful driving through Roberta Ga. scene of the crime the year before. After lunch, in Roberta, we started off again and I immediately hit a bad pothole. Yes, you guessed it, took out just the ring and pinion this time. Back to the same gas station, same attendent.
Now it's been two years, I have graduated and am heading for Miami for the summer. You guessed it! right outside of the fateful town of Roberta, I went off the road into heavy mud. Yep, another crunch, but this time I was able to drive it to my favorite gas station. Upon removing the rear end cover, I discovered one of the ring gear bolts wedged in the pinion gear. After it's removal I was able to make it home. After conferring with the triumph dealer in Miami, I was told the this particular rear end suffered from alot of play, when under duress. Apparently the locking tabs on the ring gear would contact the case and shear off a tab. Then that bolt would become loose and airborne shortly afterward.
The dealer felt sorry for me, having gone through this problem three times, he gave me a new ring and pinion gear along with ring gear bolts that were pre drilled for a safety wire.
No more Problems with the rear end up until I traded it in own a Porsche.
Now it's been two years, I have graduated and am heading for Miami for the summer. You guessed it! right outside of the fateful town of Roberta, I went off the road into heavy mud. Yep, another crunch, but this time I was able to drive it to my favorite gas station. Upon removing the rear end cover, I discovered one of the ring gear bolts wedged in the pinion gear. After it's removal I was able to make it home. After conferring with the triumph dealer in Miami, I was told the this particular rear end suffered from alot of play, when under duress. Apparently the locking tabs on the ring gear would contact the case and shear off a tab. Then that bolt would become loose and airborne shortly afterward.
The dealer felt sorry for me, having gone through this problem three times, he gave me a new ring and pinion gear along with ring gear bolts that were pre drilled for a safety wire.
No more Problems with the rear end up until I traded it in own a Porsche.
groupdeville
Jedi Hopeful
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Does anyone still make the flat metal locking tabs for the ring gear bolts?
Most of the vendors only seem to want to sell lock washers these days, and (anecdotally) I've heard that the later TRs that came with lock washers seem to have more issues with ring gear bolts coming loose than the early cars with the lock tabs.
Most of the vendors only seem to want to sell lock washers these days, and (anecdotally) I've heard that the later TRs that came with lock washers seem to have more issues with ring gear bolts coming loose than the early cars with the lock tabs.
A few years back after having the diff apart, I had a ring gear bolt come out and punch a hole in the rear cover. Part of the problem may have been that the Haynes manual (TR6) listed the torque spec for the ring gear bolts as 22-24 lb ft. That was probably correct for the early TR2 diffs with 5/16' dia. bolts, but not when the bolt dia.was increased to 3/8". I believe the torque (at least for the TR6) should be 38-46 lb ft. Also, red loctite and new lock washers should be used.
Berry
Berry
Randall-We certainly have a way of keeping each other honest and finding glitches in TR manuals. In looking at the "brown bible" TR6 factory service manual, the section near the front that lists the torque specs for all fasteners, does specify 46 lbf. But the section on diff repair (page 313 step 44) specifies 38-46 lbf when attaching the crown wheel to the carrier.
https://www.tr6pi.com/TR6 workshop Manual.pdf
Berry
https://www.tr6pi.com/TR6 workshop Manual.pdf
Berry
TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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So it does!
If that's not entertainment enough, I found a later factory manual (P/N AKM 3646, copyright 1977) that lists 40 ftlb for solid axle and 46ftlb for IRS on the torque spec page. (It covers TR4 through TR6.) But it still has the 38-46 on the equivalent page for assembling the IRS crown wheel.
PS, in the equivalent section for solid axle, it says only to refer to the table above.
If that's not entertainment enough, I found a later factory manual (P/N AKM 3646, copyright 1977) that lists 40 ftlb for solid axle and 46ftlb for IRS on the torque spec page. (It covers TR4 through TR6.) But it still has the 38-46 on the equivalent page for assembling the IRS crown wheel.
PS, in the equivalent section for solid axle, it says only to refer to the table above.