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Repainting a Big Healey

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shorn

Jedi Knight
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I am considering having my BJ8 repainted this winter and would like some opinions. It is BRG and the PO had it repainted once before. He used the lighter, more yellow shade (GN25), but I will go back to the original dark British racing green (GN29). The wheel wells and the under side of the bonnet have some sort of a undercoating on them. There appears to be no rust or bondo on the car, although you can never be sure until it is striped. The PO did not remove the fender beading when he repainted the car but rather masked it off. That was probably the poorest part of an otherwise good paint job. Of course, it would be nice to do a frame off restoration, but it is not in my budget. Besides, this is a low mileage, 50K, very good shape BJ8, that just needs new paint to look great. I know I want to remove all the crome, bumpers, grill, lights, spears, windshield, beading, etc. Should I try to remove the undercoating in the wheel wells & underside of the bonnet (How, media blast?) and repaint there. How about inside of doors, under panels? I understand PPG makes very good paint, but what process is the best, urethane? clearcoat? Obviously, I want to strip to bare metal & I would like to color sand and buff to eliminate any orange peel. Other than removing & replacing bumpers,etc. I will have someone more experienced than I do the work. Opinions and recommendations please. What about cost? Is $4000 ballpark? Anyone know someone good and reasonable in the Seattle area?
Thanks,
 
Speaking from recent (January 2004) experience, I would adjust your estimate up. By double. My car required about $8000.00 worth of work to get the body panels fitted correctly and make the seams align. If yours are good in that area, so much the better for you. The paintwork was another $8000.00 on top of the bodywork. I would get the hood dipped (alkaline immersion process) as opposed to blasted. It would be easy enough to transport and thorough rinsing wouldn't be an issue (like a chassis with hidden cavities). PPG is an excellent choice and the brand I recommend whenever asked. Leave the wheelwells alone if the coating looks sound. Most paintshops are pretty good with basecoat/clearcoat and I'm sure that would be their preference nowadays.
 
I am finishing up a frame off on my car now and I agree with Randy. I will have about $ 4,000 in my paint job and I am doing the thing myself. Strip it to bare metal (dipped), get the body straight, epoxy prime, then fill primer, PPG basecoat clear coat. By all means dissassembe the car and do it right. Have the color sanding done by a pro it makes all the difference in the world. You would hate to have your new paint cut through by oversanding or burning it with a buffer. Make sure it is done in a heated spray booth and cured. Whatever you have alloted double it. Skip
 
Shorn,

To help determine if you should do a full frame off (which you say you don't want to do and I can understand the cost/time concerns) or just a respray, you might want to do a bit of investigation. By pulling the fenders/wings you can take a good look at the backside of the panels. Are they unmolested and rust free or can you see evidence of rust or prior body work .. hammer marks, drill holes, bondo, welds, etc? Pulling the wings will also let you see areas of the frame/inner structure to check closely for any rust. Getting the car on a lift, degreasing thoroughly and poking around will also help you to determine if rust is present.

What color is the engine compartment, boot area, etc? Have you considered what you are going to do about repainting these areas during the respray?

If the body is truly solid and the paint is in good condition (no cracking, peeling, etc.) and you want to get this done with the least amount of time and expense you may not want to go all the way down to bare metal. I'm sure some will disagree but you can get a very good paint job by sanding and primering over the original paint. It's not going to be as good as a frame off where the whole frame and backside of panels gets sealed with paint but you can always come back in 5 or 10 years for the full monty.

Cheers,
John
 
The engine compartment and boot interior are the original BRG and look pretty good. I think I will leave the engine compartment alone, not sure about the boot until I remove the trunk liner (sorry the boot armacord). Since I have not done so as yet, how difficult is it to pull the wings? With the paint/clear coat method, I assume the color sanding and buffing is done prior to the clear coat. Is the clear coat buffed as well?
 
Shorn,

Good news about the darker BRG still in the motor and boot areas. The wings are just bolted on but some of the bolts are difficult to get to (especially with a full engine bay) and if they haven't been off in a long time then corrosion can make the job even more interesting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif The rear wing is easier to remove and if there is rust it is more likely to show up on the back of the car because of water spray and lack of oil coverage. Take a look at a Moss catalog or parts manual and you will see the bolts/screws used. You get to some bolts from inside the boot and along the bottom edge. Also there is a row of smaller bolts/nuts that are behind the shut face trim that secure the forward edge.

My BJ7 (california car) had only small areas of rust. A small inner structure panel behind the dog leg of the rear wing, the extension of the sill behind the dog leg and two small panels in the floor of the boot. The boot panels got rusty because the seam sealer between the frame and trunk panels failed and water got in there. I did not see this until the car got blasted so the caveat is that rust can lurk beneath the paint. Plus the inner side of the wings did not get very much paint from the factory. If you take them off it should not cost much more to give them a protective coat before they get reinstalled for the respray. You (or someone) will need to loosen the wings anyway in order to remove and replace the beading.

Here's an earlier discussion about a respray/clear coats ... paint thread


Cheers,
John
 
Shorn the color sanding and buffing is the last thing done. The basecoat and clearcoats are allowed to cure for at least 3 weeks to a month. The clear is colorsanded or flatted as some call it. It is a multi step process and must be done right to get good results. Just for info I have over a months work in my front shroud alone and it wasn`t in bad shape to begin with. The surface has to be completely flat if you want to color sand it otherwise you will cut through the basecoat/clearcoat and ruin your paintjob. Be prepared that the engine compartment, trunk door jambs etc will not match the newly painted parts no matter how much you try it just don`t happen. It is all up to you how far you want to go. Skip
 
If you do most of the dismantling yourself, and reassembling work the $4K doesn't sound to far off the mark. That is assuming the paint shop will let you help. Most won't. Your car sounds like a candidate for a respray, rather than a complete. I'd consider it, considering the care most of our cars receive after painting. I can see why the PO liked the GN25 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif but if the car was painted the later darker green I'd go with that color also.
 
I dont travel on this forum much, but I do have an opinion on paint,go urethane, its real paint, for all the right reasons. Base/clear is varnished primer. Base/ clear is cheap, fast easier to do and is pushed by body shops.Question, how do you "color sand" a non- color? Think stacks of glass on a semi-gloss black sheet of paper,is it now a high gloss sheet of paper? Or is it shiny glass on a sheet of black paper.
 
Urethane is much fussier about the fillers used under them and have a tendancy to be brittle and crack.

The modern base/clear paints are tough, durable and last a long, long time. They do not look like the original enamels that were used on LBCs. Most people 'go' for the deep, glossy appearance that two part paints can provide. You can still get enamels that will provide orange peel like the (most likely) origional paint on your car if you want it.

"color sanding" is a misnomer carried over from the old days and applied to a "new" (30 year old) technology.
 
I may be totally wrong here but PPG DCU 2021 is a clear polyurethane. I painted my Kart hauler and trailer at least 5 years ago with PPG base/clear and it has held up excellent. It has had methanol, gasoline,a little niotromethane, coors light etc spilled on it and it still looks new. I did the airplane was done in straight polyurethane with no clear and it isn`t nearly as glossy as the hauler. Just my observation for what it is worth. Skip
 
[ QUOTE ]
The wheel wells and the under side of the bonnet have some sort of a undercoating on them. I try to remove the undercoating in the wheel wells & underside of the bonnet Opinions and recommendations please. Thanks,

[/ QUOTE ]

Most undercoatings can be painted over. I just read an article about an undercoating product called "Total Coat" that can be sprayed on and offers good sound deadening as well as rust proofing, and can be painted over. Eastwood sells it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The wheel wells and the under side of the bonnet have some sort of a undercoating on them. I try to remove the undercoating in the wheel wells & underside of the bonnet Opinions and recommendations please. Thanks,

[/ QUOTE ]


Most undercoatings can be painted over. I just read an article about an undercoating product called "Total Coat" that can be sprayed on and offers good sound deadening as well as rust proofing, and can be painted over. Eastwood sells it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a new (to me) product and application gun that I've been using to replicate the textured coating on the BMWs I've been working on (for details on that; or if you have insomnia... https://www.rfdm.com/gallery/album11?page=1 )

Since trying it out (by borrowing the one from my local BMW dealer), I bought my own gun (about $175.00) and the product is fairly inexpensive at $12.95 per tube. You can adjust the gun to get a textured pattern down to a bead of sealant. I'm really impressed with it!

I plan on spraying the Healey's wheelwells with it and top coating with PPG Delstar acrylic enamel/polyurethane catalyst.

dwm_225.jpg


dwm_226.jpg


dbc_254.jpg
 
Hi all, Most clears ARE urethanes, all auto urethanes ARE two stage.
Urethanes are not brittle,laquers are.Orange peel is orange peel,you could probably orange peel water if you tried hard enough.The use of a proper sealer alleviates filler problems.The first rule in painting,your finish coats are only as good as you substrates. It is physically impossible to get the same type of quality shine and depth from a base/clear, as in a color urethane. I tried to explain that in an earlier post. Both are beautiful types of paint, both have thier place. We can cover UV break down some other time.
 
Shorn,

Try Mark Jones in Ballard. He works at Brit Sports with Tom Eller who does engine work. They are both very good!
Mark once repainted a TR-6 for me that was BRG and I was very satisfied. I'm currently in Japan on business and don't have the number,sorry.
 
Hello, I'm no paint expert, but Galsurit top coat is a Poly Acrylic material not a Poly urethane material. If you guys say the two stage urethanes are good, then things have improved.

I have seen materials that were referred to as urethanes that are single stage materials i.e. no clear top coat. My casual search of the web shows that these single stage urethanes are still available for automotive painting. I was told that these items are quite brittle. I was shown a spot where the plastic filler had "moved" and the paint on top was cracked while the remainder of the car looked fine. The same individual showed me a car painted with the Glasurit product and claimed that it was superior in that respect.

I now have two Glasurit base/clear painted cars that I am totally satisfied with, including a fiberglass bonnet that definately moves, but the paint looks great.
 
Glasurit is the top of the line paint. It can be obtained either as a single stage or a two stage paint.For either type a catalist will be required as most paint today is urethane based.Glasurit's top of the line clear coat is a Polyurethane.-FWIW---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif---PS there should be no plastic filler in the car to upset the paint!
 
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