Ray's oil pan

[Hap Waldrop]

Here's a photo of Ray's Winner Circle stage 1 competition oil pan we'll be using on his engine. Basicly this pan has squared bottom that allow more oil volume, it also has some competition baffling inside, I'll explin that in the following post with pictures.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Here's inverted look at the pan.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Here's a look insidde, the front section of the pan is boxed off with trap door, to keep oil arounf the oil pump pick up tube under hard braking, it will still let oil to the front of the pan as it is air tight around the edges, it just slows down the forward motion of the oil, so it doesn't all slosh that way under braking.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Here's a look at the trap door.

 

[jvandyke]

Cool, is that a known issue? Losing oiling during braking?

 

[64rocksprite]

Hap,
Is this pan deeper than stock to gain the additional volume, or it's just the squared bottom that adds capacity?
Any special pick-up required for the oil pump?

 

[Hedgehog]

jvandyke, yup losing oil under braking is a known issue as the pickup is in the back. I used this pan on my F Prod Midget and never had an issue with hard braking or cornering.

The pan is the same depth, but you won't be able to get your hand between this pan and the frame rails.

Personally it was worth the few dollars in my racecar.

Thanks for the pics Hap.

 

[tony barnhill]

So, Hap, if I send you an MGB pan, can you do the same to it?

 

[Hap Waldrop]

So, Hap, if I send you an MGB pan, can you do the same to it?

David answered the other tow questions quite well. Mvoing oil to the fornt of the pan probably not as big a deal in street car, but try to hit the track without some baffling and you may find your bearing and crank life to be rather short. Ray's car is street racer if you will and under regular street drivng is not a big issue, but we'll probably get ray out for a track day with this car, and he saw the pans on our race cars and wanted one for thios car, so he got one, Rays cars will have alot of features on it that most of race car have.

Tony I often wonder why someoen hasn't designed a square bottom pan for a MGB. I didn't make this pan, it custom made for Winners Circle, they sell it, they even make one above this pan called a super comp pan that has different pick up that sits at the very back of the pan, and it has both lateral and front to rear baffles and trap door, and the baffle is removeable. To design a pan like this would be a big job, real big job, it would have to take in effect the headers used, have to have chassis to jig up for it, lets just say I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole and to make a prototype would be verrrrrrrrrrrrry expensive. Basil Adams and Headley both make baffled oil pans for MGBs, there no where near as trick as these WC Spridget pans, but the B racers swear by them. Spridget are one of the highest corner G force racers out there, and they probably need more than a B anyway. A good SCCA spridget race car can flirt with 2 Gs in a corner, you got to get a formula car to get that kind of Gs, why you think I wedge my big butt in a Spridget race car when I could be racing a B, becunce nothing corners like a well set up Spridget, maybe a Super 7 or a real well prepped Spitfire.

Oh I just got this pan bolted on, I bet I have bolted down this type of WC pan on A-series blocks a 100 times, and there's still one bolt that will make you pull your hair out, it took me 30 minutes alone to get that one bolt tight, David you know the one

 

[Hedgehog]

Hap, are you sticking with the regular bolts on this one? I went to studs on my last car which made it a little easier for me anyway to get it back together while under the car. Also made it easier to get the gasket where I wanted it.

Oh and I did misquote last time. I was using the Super Comp Pan with the modified oil pickup.

 

[blkcorvair]

David where do you get those studs from. Ive got an add on crank scraper and ins a pain in the you know what to line everything up.

 

[Westfield_XI]

One thing to be aware of is a possible interference issue with the slave cylinder on the Datsun gearbox. I have a Speedwell pan that looks to be the same design and size and I had to have the left corner modified to look like the right side with an angled edge. Even then it was just luck that allowed me to install the slave. There were two bosses on mine in that area after the modification: one for the drain and one for the temp sending unit and the drain plug cannot be removed without unbolting the slave cylinder.

Hap, have you tried to bolt on the transmission yet? Or do you even have it there? Or is Ray using a stock trans?

 

[Hedgehog]

Scott, I ordered the studs from Winner's Circle when I ordered the Super Comp Pan. Well worth the few bucks as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Scott, your 1500 pan bolts/stud will be 5/16", they are 1/4" on A-series engines.
David, yeah I seen the studs, I got a few customers using them, just not a nig fan of studs, seen too many snap over the years, especially as samll as 1/4"


That's a good point on the Datsun tranny, I actually have one here to test with it, but it wouldn't do me any good because Ray is using a small billet aftermarket slave cylinder, so hopefully it won't be a problem, but these are the type things you run into when heading down new paths, needless to say I never used one of these pans on a steeet engine, and we in racing don't use the Datsun gearbox, all the popular racing gearboxes are based off the rib cage tranny case. If we need to go back and modify it, we will, hopefully we won't. I always tell folks modification is like lying, once you start, you have to keep doing it in order to make everything work out.

 

[Westfield_XI]

Here is a picture showing the area of contact on a modified Speedwell oilpan when using a Spridget slave cylinder. If Ray's Billet slave cylinder extends forward of the Rivergate adapter plate there will be contact.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Thanks for the picture, yep if any of the slave cylinder protrudes forward of the rear engine plate, looks like a mod to the WC pan will be needed. Without this heads-up form you, on this less than normal street combination, we would have never known about it until assembly started. I think I'll get Ray to get another Payen pan gasket set (Winners Circle has them in stock) and do a dry fit on the engine stnd, and if ( and suspect we will) we have a interference I'll remove the pan, make the mod and put it all back together. Ray and me will make a day out of it. Again thanks for this alert.

 

[mccalebr]

Hi guys, I've been out of town for a week and just saw this thread this morning. Excellent information.

I pulled the transmission out of the shipping crate and did a trial fit of the billet slave cylinder on it (see photo). The cylinder, when in place, protrudes beyond the transmission housing between 1/8" and 1/4"; that's not including the nipple and hose. The aluminum adapter plate between engine back plate and transmission is, I believe, 3/4". So, it looks like the slave will fit without modificaion of the oil sump...assuming the 90 degree nipple can be rotated a bit so the hose will clear.

BTW...the slave came from Rivergate (it's on their web page)...I don't know what the original application might have been, but it looks like the only mod that Rivergate did was to elongate the mounting bracket holes a bit.

Ray

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Ray, yes it stands a fighting chance, if the NPT fitting is rotated to th side. Bring it all up when you come to get the engine, and we will test fit it all.

On a side note, I've just finished lunch and now back to the back room to continue porting your head, got the the first two stages done (carbide bit and mounted stones) now on to the cartridge rolls. I hope to give to my valve seat guys today. Well bck to the coal mines for me fellas, heck working in the coal mine couldn't be much cleaner than porting heads anyway

 

[bill_young]

Ray, you'll need to get busy and grind the casting flash off that transmission and get that case polished up a bit so it will match Hap's beautiful work. ;-)

 

[mccalebr]

Ray, you'll need to get busy and grind the casting flash off that transmission and get that case polished up a bit so it will match Hap's beautiful work. ;-)

Don't I know it! Hap's work moves the bar higher.

Ray