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Radiator upgrade

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bluegrass john

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2016 is here and I am considering a cooling system upgrade with the existing original 50 year old radiator such as a new core with improved fins and tubes, a Wizard aluminum radiator, or the new Moss upgraded radiator which appears to look completely stock except for the drain tap. I was hoping someone on this forum had some information or experience with the upgraded Moss unit that is advertised as having 25 per cent more cooling capacity. I know persons who have had great success with the aluminum radiators, having their stock radiator recored, but I have not talked to anyone who has had any experience with the new radiator that Moss is now offering.

Any one who has installed this radiator or knows of any success stories with this unit I would like to learn more. Any information would be much appreciated !!

John
 
Hello John,
i highly recommend the all aluminum radiator from Wizard! It has the larger core and modern fin design. It really is a work of art with beautiful craftsmanship and highly polished, it bolts right in and looks like it belongs there! and in my personal opinion looks much prettier then the stock black unit, not to mention it is half the weight or less of the original. I have had it installed in my 67 Bj8 for Over four years now and have nothing but good things to say about it! It was shipped to my door for $530 dollars total. Be sure to have them add the top fan guard as it is a option.. Also, be sure no matter what radiator you decide upon, definitely install the proper sleeved thermostat that moss sells. It's a little expensive but a must if you want your Healey to run cool at a normal 180 degrees in 80 to 85 degree summer days. Also, I do highly recommend adding a recovery bottle for a sealed system. I haven't known anyone's experience with the moss radiators, maybe some other person can chime in on that product. Oh, just one more thing! Don't forget to tape cardboard to the front and back of your new radiator before you install it as to prevent any damage upon installation. Take care.
 
Just a note:
Copper has a higher thermal conductivity than aluminum and the upgraded copper radiator cores provide significant cooling upgrade capability.
 
Hi Keoke,
I was just checking the price difference between the New wizard aluminum radiator and the copy of the original being sold out there.. The wizard is $400 cheaper! From my original post I was sharing my personal experience after using the wizard radiator for 4 1/2 years. My BJ8 runs at 180 degrees all day long on 85 degree days which is where it should be. Actually, it runs too cool on colder days about 137 to 145 degrees in 35 to 50 degree weather here in Chicago. I'm running a 160 degree sleeved thermostat...go figure? In any case, with the significant weight savings and price difference, not to mention its proven quality, performance and good looks! Personally, If I where John, I would be off to see the Wizard! :smile:. Have a great New Year Keoke.
 
Yeah
drambuie
Xmass is over--:highly_amused:

HOWEVER, Most of the time we re-core our stock radiator .
Most radiator shops have access to the upgraded cores and the cost should come down
40 to 50 %.

ADDITIONALLY a Texas Cooler fan sure helps too.

OH! My BJ8 runs about 90 degrees here in the summer I can even run in Phoenix AZ during the winter months too.
Come to think about it, I have been to Car shows at an exclusive Restoration shop in Tucson in the middle of summer.
 
Keoke said:
Just a note:
Copper has a higher thermal conductivity than aluminum and the upgraded copper radiator cores provide significant cooling upgrade capability.
Click to expand...

I would also read the FAQs on the Wizard site:
https://wizardcooling.com/faq/

The company that makes the radiators for restoration, upgrades and replacements for Corvettes is here in Michigan, and I'll be touring the facility in 10 days.
Their thoughts and comments mirror what Wizard says regarding aluminum vs copper radiators. Given the choice, I would also choose aluminum.
 
Keoke said:
Yeah
drambuie
Xmass is over--:highly_amused:

HOWEVER, Most of the time we re-core our stock radiator .
Most radiator shops have access to the upgraded cores and the cost should come down
40 to 50 %.

ADDITIONALLY a Texas Cooler fan sure helps too.

OH! My BJ8 runs about 90 degrees here in the summer I can even run in Phoenix AZ during the winter months too.
Come to think about it, I have been to Car shows at an exclusive Restoration shop in Tucson in the middle of summer.
Click to expand...

NO Keoke... Christmas is not over, the liturgical calendar is just beginning! �� And the new year is still new! One of the main reasons I decided not to recore is because I did not want to recore between the 50 year old upper and lower tanks, especially since mine had some pin holes in the top brass tank. I just didn't want to throw good money after bad in my particular case. Yep, a Texas cooler is a big help moving the around, it's a big improvement over the stock four blade that can't blow a feather off the water pump.. But even a Texas cooler fan won't help you in a traffic jam on a hot day! I need to motivate myself to install a auxiliary fan someday!
 
Drambuie, Are you saying that even with the Wizard and the Texas cooler fan that there is still a problem when stopped or moving slowly and the air flow is decreased ? I have talked with several folks including yourself that all say their experience with the Wizard has been great, but I have always wondered and never thought to asked if the temperature gauge still rises quickly when the vehicle is stopped. and air flow is decreased.

I have appreciated your input and advice concerning my questions. I am convinced the wizard will provide a great improvement: I still would like to know if the Moss upgraded unit performs as well but I have not been able to locate anyone that has had any experience using the unit.
 
Yes John, even if you install a new radiator of your choosing and add a Texas cooler fan you will still over heat in a traffic jam situation very quickly on a hot day.. The solution is to also add a 12 inch auxiliary fan just like the new modern cars are equipped. If I took the two auxiliary fans off my Nissan Morano it would over heat in a traffic jam situation as well. So, to sum things up, it is very important to make sure you have a proper sleeved 160 degree thermostat, upgraded radiator with the bigger core such as the aluminum wizard or original upgrade replacement, new water pump, proper timing at 15 degrees, Texas cooler fan and finally a 12 inch auxiliary fan with the built in thermostat so it kicks in automatically when temps rise above normal. All combined, you shouldn't have any problems. I still have not installed a auxiliary fan yet because my Healey runs cool even from stop light to stop light on hot days... It's the traffic jam situation such as on the interstate that will give us all big problems if we don't have a 12 inch auxiliary fan to complete the cooling system. But for normal driving on hot days it's not needed. I just wanted to pass along my personal experience with my setup... As I stated you should run at 180 degrees all day long on summer days in the 75 to 85 range. And 190 degrees on days 90 to 100 degrees without a auxiliary fan and have no problem at stop lights.. It's the traffic jam situation that brings the auxiliary fan into play. Hope this info helps as you move along on your cooling system so you get it right and can drive worry free in any situation.
 
Healeysince59 said:
I'm curious where this exclusive restoration shop is. I think I'm missing something.

Marv J
Click to expand...

I do not remember the name of the shop. It was not just a British car shop.
However, attendees were given certificates based upon the shops personnels evaluation of our cars. I do remember that Garry Anderson was at that meet too.
I have my certificate put away some place I will look it up and get back to You.
 
Hi John, if you decide on the aluminum wizard radiator would you please take time to weigh the difference between your original unit and the aluminum wizard, and share the weight difference with all if us? I forgot to do a weight comparison before I installed mine years ago and am still curious!
 
I can certainly do that when the decision is made...............I certainly am impressed with the Wizard unit, especially after talking with an individual in the home office!!!
Thanks again for your input.................everyone else that chimed in was appreciated !! By the way the fan shroud is now included and not optional, so i was told.

John
 
Thanks John, I do know the weight saving was significant! I also got rid of the badly designed original oil canister and switched to mosses spin on oil filter adapter, another major improvement both in safety, better oil filtering, ease of filter changes and lower cost Spin on filters...not to mention a big weight savings. That old Leakey canister oil filter unit is a lead brick! Next I would love to machine myself some aluminum rear brake drums with steel changeable inserts, the stock units are increadbly heavy and cast out of balance. As you well know, all the exotics and high end cars have been making a big move to carbon fiber these days including the new Alfa Romeo which is largely made of carbon fiber and a low horse power motor to achieve high performances! In our vintage cars with 125 to 150 horsepower I think shedding some of the unnessary weight when doing upgrades is always a wise thing to do in terms of performance.
 
I'm just sorting having my radiator recored here in the uk ...your comment about drums has me thinking. Alfin used to make such things I wonder if one can still get them ?
If not the machining process from round billet would be quite easy but a big enough lathe and the cost of the billet may be prohibitive. I'll look into this.
 
Aluminum/aluminium radiators are works of art, but for those who want to maintain the stock look of their cars and at the same time declare victory over the high coolant temps, plus save a few coins, having your original radiator re-cored with a modern core is a better way to go. Any good radiator shop can do this. I live in the southern part of the USA, where high summer temps are the norm. Over the 30 years I have owned my BJ8, I tried just about every idea or suggestion for reducing the coolant temps -- all kinds of multi-blade fans, radiator shrouds, Water Wetter, pure water, etc., etc. and nothing really worked. Until I had my stock radiator re-cored with a modern core with more tubes and more fins ($444) and added a proper sleeved thermostat ($38). I had tried the 160-deg. sleeved thermostat from Moss, but found that the car ran way too cold in the winter. Once the coolant temp hits 160 deg., the thermostat is wide open and is effectively out of the loop as far as controlling the temperature. I actually had to put cardboard in front of the radiator in winter to get the temp up to 180. Since the only sleeved thermostats that are currently available from the usual suspects are the 160-deg. type, I was fortunate to find a 187-deg. sleeved thermostat from a supplier in Holland who participates on the healeys@autox.team.net list. With that, the re-cored stock radiator, and a Texas Kooler fan my BJ8 stays between 170 and 190 on hot summer days, and only goes above that temporarily at stop lights or heavy traffic.
 
haasad said:
I'm just sorting having my radiator recored here in the uk ...your comment about drums has me thinking. Alfin used to make such things I wonder if one can still get them ?
If not the machining process from round billet would be quite easy but a big enough lathe and the cost of the billet may be prohibitive. I'll look into this.
Click to expand...

I happen to be a precision machinist by trade, my brother and I retired and we sold the the machine shop last year, I just might visit with the new owner and see about getting some Lathe and milling time in...but not sure it's worth it. The Alfin aluminum units are a saving of around 5.250 pounds each.. However, the cost is prohibitive for what they are asking, not to mention shipping! It may be much wiser to convert to rear disk brakes.
 
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