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performance increase from triple strombergs??
- Thread starter brent615
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Trick6
Jedi Hopeful
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Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
Brent615:
I bought my car with dual Webers. I replaced the two Webers with three 175 Strombergs. I have them running just fine now but a little rich. The gas mileage is surprisingly very good highway cruising. I don't care much about the around town mileage.
Performance? Well, I have done so much to the motor that I can't give you a good comparison with a stock conversion. I am told since doing this that the HP is accomplished by increasing the compression. My motor program consisted of balancing all rotating components, head work now 10.0:1 compression, GP2 cam and lots of other stuff.
This is the finish product. Go to the link below to see the components list.
Brent615:
I bought my car with dual Webers. I replaced the two Webers with three 175 Strombergs. I have them running just fine now but a little rich. The gas mileage is surprisingly very good highway cruising. I don't care much about the around town mileage.
Performance? Well, I have done so much to the motor that I can't give you a good comparison with a stock conversion. I am told since doing this that the HP is accomplished by increasing the compression. My motor program consisted of balancing all rotating components, head work now 10.0:1 compression, GP2 cam and lots of other stuff.
This is the finish product. Go to the link below to see the components list.
Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
Brent, I have '76 with an Isky street cam, and I immediately noticed a definite improvement in power pretty much across the rpm range. They especially allowed the engine to reach redline much more enthusiastically. One thing I would suggest if you're running triple ZS carbs, is to get the Ratco cable throttle linkage to ensure full throttle opening and smooth action.
Tom
Brent, I have '76 with an Isky street cam, and I immediately noticed a definite improvement in power pretty much across the rpm range. They especially allowed the engine to reach redline much more enthusiastically. One thing I would suggest if you're running triple ZS carbs, is to get the Ratco cable throttle linkage to ensure full throttle opening and smooth action.
Tom
LastDeadLast
Jedi Knight
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Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
I've had the triple carbs as well as my current setup, dual HS8's.
My take on the triple carbs, nice but in my case, I spent ALOT of time tuning them to get good idling characteristics and performance... try as I might, I could just get my setup to idle below 1300rpm. Another problem that many people that has had the tripps, is that after they get hot the linkages start binding a bit, which caused the idling problem I listed above. Performance was definitely better than with the dual ZS carbs, but then again, I had added cam, compression and headers at the same time.... but they looked SOOOO cool!
The Ratco throttle linkage is a must.
If you read Kas Kastner's book, he says that the dual carbs are good for 175HP, but I think he was making custom needles and the like... I think that you might want to seriously consider dual HS6's or HS8's. Like I said before, I went the HS8 route and I like them a bunch more than the triple carbs, but that install isn't for the faint at heart; You have to get the intake manifold bored out to fit the HS8 and you have to fabricate the choke linkage and fuel lines. The HS6 is a much simpler installation, plus there are a billion needles for them. I'm sure with a little time, you could get a dual HS6 setup to run at least as good as the triple carbs.. with no mussing with linkages and the like.. either way, I would still get the Ratco linkage.. it's great thing.
Here is my HS8 setup with a custom dual-layered stainless heat shield.. it's not as cool looking as the triple carbs, but it goes like stink and the intake sound is MUCH, MUCH louder.
I've had the triple carbs as well as my current setup, dual HS8's.
My take on the triple carbs, nice but in my case, I spent ALOT of time tuning them to get good idling characteristics and performance... try as I might, I could just get my setup to idle below 1300rpm. Another problem that many people that has had the tripps, is that after they get hot the linkages start binding a bit, which caused the idling problem I listed above. Performance was definitely better than with the dual ZS carbs, but then again, I had added cam, compression and headers at the same time.... but they looked SOOOO cool!
The Ratco throttle linkage is a must.
If you read Kas Kastner's book, he says that the dual carbs are good for 175HP, but I think he was making custom needles and the like... I think that you might want to seriously consider dual HS6's or HS8's. Like I said before, I went the HS8 route and I like them a bunch more than the triple carbs, but that install isn't for the faint at heart; You have to get the intake manifold bored out to fit the HS8 and you have to fabricate the choke linkage and fuel lines. The HS6 is a much simpler installation, plus there are a billion needles for them. I'm sure with a little time, you could get a dual HS6 setup to run at least as good as the triple carbs.. with no mussing with linkages and the like.. either way, I would still get the Ratco linkage.. it's great thing.
Here is my HS8 setup with a custom dual-layered stainless heat shield.. it's not as cool looking as the triple carbs, but it goes like stink and the intake sound is MUCH, MUCH louder.
Brosky
Great Pumpkin
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Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
After owning a tri-power GTO I had to do it to my TR6.
Goes like a bat outa ----, but it should with everything that I've done.
If you don't raise the compression and get the dizzy recurved and install headers, you are waisting time and money.
Just my learned opinion from my first installation.....and they really do look cool!
After owning a tri-power GTO I had to do it to my TR6.
Goes like a bat outa ----, but it should with everything that I've done.
If you don't raise the compression and get the dizzy recurved and install headers, you are waisting time and money.
Just my learned opinion from my first installation.....and they really do look cool!
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martx-5
Yoda
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Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
Funny thing, Tony at RATCO put on a triple SU setup on his TR250. I believe he has the HIF SU carbs (1 3/4"). He also complained about the high idle, although he says his is running more like 1800 rpm. He said he just cant seem to get it any lower. Is there anything we should be looking for?? I feel a little responsible, as he was having troubles with the Weber DGVs he had on there, and I kinda talked him into the triple set-up, preferably with SUs. It says that overall, the triple set-up works better, it's just that high idle he can't seem to get down. BTW, he has a compression increase and a pretty hot cam with headers. I haven't looked at the problem yet, but I'd like to help him out.
LastDeadLast said:
Funny thing, Tony at RATCO put on a triple SU setup on his TR250. I believe he has the HIF SU carbs (1 3/4"). He also complained about the high idle, although he says his is running more like 1800 rpm. He said he just cant seem to get it any lower. Is there anything we should be looking for?? I feel a little responsible, as he was having troubles with the Weber DGVs he had on there, and I kinda talked him into the triple set-up, preferably with SUs. It says that overall, the triple set-up works better, it's just that high idle he can't seem to get down. BTW, he has a compression increase and a pretty hot cam with headers. I haven't looked at the problem yet, but I'd like to help him out.
BobbyD
Jedi Knight
Offline
Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
Paul.......have you considered adding the Goodparts' Ram Air Induction to your car? I saw Richard's car last year at VTR and I was surprised at how good it looked. Plus all that nice outside cooler air getting forced to the carbs has to help.
Paul.......have you considered adding the Goodparts' Ram Air Induction to your car? I saw Richard's car last year at VTR and I was surprised at how good it looked. Plus all that nice outside cooler air getting forced to the carbs has to help.
Brosky
Great Pumpkin
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Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
Art,
Having been down a rough road when I first installed my triple ZS carbs with the "experimental" SOLID linkage that Jeff Palya was testing, I can suggest a few things. Is he using solid or flexible couplers? There are two versions of the same type of flexible coupler and one is a lot stiffer spring steel and is not forgiving at all when it gets hot. Put the softest or weakest springs on the shafts. They will hold just fine.
I would get the car on an emission sniffer and make sure that you are not running lean. Dead give away is fast idle that won't come down.
Assuming that you are not lean, disconnect the linkages that connect the carbs together and see if the idle comes down. If so, start by hooking up two at once and see when the idle goes back up. That would indicate misaligned intakes or misaligned throttle shafts.
The manifolds can be in perfect alignment cold, but can twist when hot. You have to find a happy medium, working from the center manifold and out to either side. Just a slight adjustment can fix a binding problem that takes place hot, but is not there when cold.
The alignment issues, when added to the stiffer flexible couplers can create the problem that you are describing. I know, because I've been there.
Art,
Having been down a rough road when I first installed my triple ZS carbs with the "experimental" SOLID linkage that Jeff Palya was testing, I can suggest a few things. Is he using solid or flexible couplers? There are two versions of the same type of flexible coupler and one is a lot stiffer spring steel and is not forgiving at all when it gets hot. Put the softest or weakest springs on the shafts. They will hold just fine.
I would get the car on an emission sniffer and make sure that you are not running lean. Dead give away is fast idle that won't come down.
Assuming that you are not lean, disconnect the linkages that connect the carbs together and see if the idle comes down. If so, start by hooking up two at once and see when the idle goes back up. That would indicate misaligned intakes or misaligned throttle shafts.
The manifolds can be in perfect alignment cold, but can twist when hot. You have to find a happy medium, working from the center manifold and out to either side. Just a slight adjustment can fix a binding problem that takes place hot, but is not there when cold.
The alignment issues, when added to the stiffer flexible couplers can create the problem that you are describing. I know, because I've been there.
billspohn
Jedi Knight
Offline
Apologies - this isn't a TR-6 motor, but the conversion is analagous. I built a manifold to mount triple HS6 carbs on an MGC engine. No compression bump, mild cam, built some headers, result was an hinest timed 130 MPH top speed (probably about 10 MPH increase over stock) and more torque throughout.
No problem getting it to idle like a baby, so no idea what is going on there.
On the TR-6 the triple 175s are a lot of carb, and I'd agree that unless you do head flowing, headers and cam, it is mostly just eye candy.
I like the 2" set up - very sensible for the street. For a high compression hot street engine, the straight shot of the triples would be worthwhile.
If the pictures look familiar, it is because two TR-4As gave their manifolds to the cause.
No problem getting it to idle like a baby, so no idea what is going on there.
On the TR-6 the triple 175s are a lot of carb, and I'd agree that unless you do head flowing, headers and cam, it is mostly just eye candy.
I like the 2" set up - very sensible for the street. For a high compression hot street engine, the straight shot of the triples would be worthwhile.
If the pictures look familiar, it is because two TR-4As gave their manifolds to the cause.
Trick6
Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
Contrary to advertising, the GP cold air induction box is not "forced air." It is an outside air pick up. More over, the box is another thing to pull off if you just want to deal with one carb.
I passed on the GP air box for the large individual air cleaners. I am told that some buyers could not fit the big air cleaners. I am using the carb isolators and the tall air cleaners all clearing the inner fender well (front carb). I left the 4" hole in the shroud for the outside air to inter the engine bay. Sometimes (real hot days) I place a 4” flex dryer duct in the hole to direct the incoming air at the air cleaners. It does not affect the water temp. Some fresh air is better than none.
Contrary to advertising, the GP cold air induction box is not "forced air." It is an outside air pick up. More over, the box is another thing to pull off if you just want to deal with one carb.
I passed on the GP air box for the large individual air cleaners. I am told that some buyers could not fit the big air cleaners. I am using the carb isolators and the tall air cleaners all clearing the inner fender well (front carb). I left the 4" hole in the shroud for the outside air to inter the engine bay. Sometimes (real hot days) I place a 4” flex dryer duct in the hole to direct the incoming air at the air cleaners. It does not affect the water temp. Some fresh air is better than none.
Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
As some of you know, I had the cold air induction box from GoodParts and didn't care for it. Mostly because I didn't like the looks + the model I got didn't have the built-in venturi's. I now have three 3" K&N round filters that fit tight but clear the fenders well. Plus I louvered the bonnet right above the filters.
As some of you know, I had the cold air induction box from GoodParts and didn't care for it. Mostly because I didn't like the looks + the model I got didn't have the built-in venturi's. I now have three 3" K&N round filters that fit tight but clear the fenders well. Plus I louvered the bonnet right above the filters.
swift6
Yoda
Offline
Re: performance increase from tri[le strombergs??
Never claims that it is "forced" air. Which might actually allude to a supercharger type effect. He calls it a "Ram-Air" system because it ends up feeding pressurized air to the carbs (it is in effect forced due to pressure, but just slightly so). If you recall the "Ram-Air" on muscle cars, it is much the same idea.
It can be a pain to install/remove to work on the carbs. Add an "ARE" heatshield to the mix, which mounts between the carbs and the air filters/air box and the fun really begins!
Mine has the velocity stacks built into it, which is sort of an added bonus. 
Trick6 said:
Never claims that it is "forced" air. Which might actually allude to a supercharger type effect. He calls it a "Ram-Air" system because it ends up feeding pressurized air to the carbs (it is in effect forced due to pressure, but just slightly so). If you recall the "Ram-Air" on muscle cars, it is much the same idea.
It can be a pain to install/remove to work on the carbs. Add an "ARE" heatshield to the mix, which mounts between the carbs and the air filters/air box and the fun really begins!
Mine has the velocity stacks built into it, which is sort of an added bonus.