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OD question for Don E, et al

Geo Hahn

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I'm adding an OD to the TR4 and have been reviewing the Forum archives on the subject.

Don -- I came across the attached photo of the holes you made in the gearbox tunnel. Can you tell me what each is for so I can get them lined up correctly.

Also -- Roger Williams' book on TR4 restoration shows a big hole/cover plate added to the right side of the tunnel, down low near the speedo cable. Any idea what advantage that would be? If it is for getting at the angle drive... is this enough of a troublesome item that easy access is warranted?

At least my tunnel is cardboard, pretty easy to carve I guess.
 

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In the attachment that Geo has above, the large hole is to get your fingers in to align the screwdriver tip onto the heads of the two screws. Don't use hex head bolts unless you have a long shank 1/4" socket drive that won't fall off and get lost under the car. This hole also provides access for removing and replacing the screws and the solenoid. The hole is usually covered with a rubber plug like those used in the floor pans for the jack position.

The 2 upper holes are for the long screwdriver I have so the tip can get straight down to unscrew the screws holding the solenoid. The reason they are not the same diameter is simple. I had two rubber plugs of different sizes, so that's why.

As for the hole on the RHS in a TR4, I can't say. The TR3A has a rubber boot covering a similar opening which lets you get in to unscrew the threaded end on the speedo cable coming out the back side of the overdrive. There is no 90 degree drive on the TR3A.

BTW, my early TR3A has a rubber plug on the top RHS of the tunnel for re-filling the gearbox and overdrive with a fill plug cum dip-stick. On the later TR3As, you fill the gearbox on the LHS and I put a rubber plug there to facilitate this task on the late TR3A I just finished. See attachment.
 

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Don,

Did you cut a hole on the right side to see the actuating lever as well or just the left to be able to remove the solenoid. Hmmm, maybe you can see your actuating lever through the oil fill hole. My next question is do the solenoids fail often? I've had a new relay, harness, and solenoid installed for the last two years with no problems to date.
 
No - I didn't make a hole for the lever on the RHS and no, it can't be reached from the oil fill plug hole. Once you set it all correctly and get it tight (all with the whole tunnel off) it rarely needs any further adjustment.

If a solenoid works, it could last years. I had my original one fail and so I bought a new one. I waited till I had to have the tunnel out to replace it. I have heard that it can be done lying on your back under the car and reaching up in the dark trying to visualize what you need to do and where you are with your tools, but it's a 30 minute job to change it my way from the top with those access holes. And 20 minutes of that is getting all my tools out the trunk along the side of the road or in a parking lot and then re-packing the trunk.

The new solenoid I bought (in 2000) failed in early 2001. So I sent it back. By this time, I had taken my original solenoid apart and found all I had to do was re-solder some tiny wires for the coils back to the terminals. When it failed again (same reason), I installed my 2nd new spare (never used) and it lasted about 6 months. I swapped them back again and took the new defective one apart by carefully pulling back the top rubber boot to see what was the problem. It is made differently than the original ones and a glob of solid RTV silicone the size of a pea had broken loose and was fouling the internal contact. I pulled it out and it was working again. Then I went through it all again and I have my original one back in and I just repaired the new one again. There was more of the RTV silicone that was stuck in the hole where the sliding plunger was being restricted from full upward travel. Now it's repaired again and back in my tool kit of spares in the "boot".

https://www.rucompatible.com/triumph/images/DE58.jpeg

I don't want to scare you or anyone else but it sure is nice to have an overdrive that works and to know I have a spare in the trunk that works and a hole that takes so little time to change it.

A solenoid is not a critical item because, as you know, you can drive a long way home without the overdrive solenoid working.
 
Hi Geo,

Don's info is good, but I think the TR4 w/OD uses a slightly different gearbox cover than TR3 w/OD, so let me jump in here with some suggestions.

You can opt not to add *some* of the access holes, but that would normally mean completely removing the gearbox cover to do any service work on the OD (see below for a possible solution).

The RH side cover, however, also provides extra room for the angle drive and/or speedo cable (early cars just used a longer cable without an angle drive). The location of the speedo connection is different on the OD than on the non-OD box, so that side cover not only gives access, it is "bumped out" to make for some clearance in there. The angle drive does need occasional service, it will fail if not kept lubricated with some grease.

Last I looked, those RH side covers aren't available anywhere. One sold for a lot of $$$s on eBay recently. It might be possible to fabricate, but would need some experienced body hammer work to make it look anything like the press-formed original.

The LH side has a flat plate access cover that's there to give access to the OD adjustments and solenoid. This one is pretty easy to fabricate out of any available flat sheet steel or aluminum. However, it's positioned right under the LH leg of the dash support yoke and not very easily removed without pulling out that support (I'll get to more about this in a minute). It also doesn't give very good access to the solenoid.

Another hole is on the RH side, above the socket/cap, inside which the OD actuating valve is fitted. This is where a pressure gauge needs to be fitted during some servicing, so is intended to give access. The hole is approx. 1-1/4 round with a rubber plug.

The last hole (if memory serves) is up near the firewall, at about the 1 or 2 o'clock position, approx. 1" diameter fitted with a rubber grommet for the wiring harnes to come through.

But, all this is only academic unless you are seriously worried about originality in an area no councours judge will ever see. The only real practical consideration is creating a "bump" to allow some clearance at the angle drive/speedo cable connection. For example, if using a polyurethane cover, it might be possible to heat it up carefully and shape it to form that clearance bump.

IMHO, another solution is a two-piece cover. One of the British vendors (I forget which... maybe Racetorations) offers these in fiberglass, but I think one would also be pretty easy to make one out of the widely available polyurethane covers being offered by some vendors.

Essentially, the two piece gearbox cover is sawn in half right at the TR4's dash support yoke, and has some sort of fastening and seal added there. This allows the rear half to be removed while the front half of the cover stays bolted in place. To my way of thinking, this is the ideal solution - especially for an OD-equipped car - and will give best/easiest access to everything. In this case the only other mod that would still be needed is the clearance bump at the angle drive/speedo cable connection.

I plan to modify one of those covers this way. I'll use a flat piece of aluminum inside to form a flange that the rear half bolts to, probably riveted/glued to the front half of the cover. That arched piece of aluminum will also act as a support to help prevent the polyurethane from ever sagging if it gets warm (I suspect this might be a problem with a two-piece cover, the one piece cover is pretty rigid and self-supporting). I think 1/16 or 1/8" x 1-1/2" wide aluminum will work fine.

Regarding solenoids, I've got an original in my car that works fine when tested, we'll see if it continues to work well when the car eventually goes back on the road.

The main "killer" of the A-type's operating solenoid is mis-adjustment of the OD linkage. This is becasue the solenoid uses two separate circuits: One is a higher powered circuit that's for the initial actuation, i.e. for the first movement of the solenoid's plunger. The other is a lower power circuit that then switches in to hold the plunger and the OD linkage in the "on" position, until the power is cut off, the linkage is returned to it's resting position and the OD is disengaged.

If adjustment of the linkage is off a little bit, the high power circuit can stay engaged all the time. This will *greatly* shorten the life of the solenoid.

The method of adjusting the linkage "by the book" is to use a 1/16" drill bit to align a hole in the OD case with a hole in the linkage, both located on the RH side of the box (opposite the solenoid and accessible through that cover we discussed already). The linkage is then adjusted by loosening the actuating arm and rotating it a little on its shaft. This works well, if the OD is in like-new condition internally. However, the problem with following this method is that if an OD has some wear and tear on it, such as on the clutch surfaces, this method is unlikely to be very accurate and can leave the solenoid working harder in the high power mode all the time. A better and more accurate adjustment method is to remove the cap from the valve on the RH side and use a dial inidicator to measure the exact amount of lift the linkage is giving to the ball in there, moving it up off it's seat to allow hydraulic pressurization of the OD unit. I don't have the exact figure at hand, but it's in the service manuals. With the adjustment set this way it should allow the solenoid to drop back into the low power "hold/on" mode right after the initial high power actuation. Still, it's worth double checking carefully at the solenoid that this is happening.

Hope this helps!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
Harry & other Sidescreen owners - I forgot to mention that it's not essential to remove the steel tunnel to put in those 3 holes I have for access to my solenoid. (see the photo attachment Geo has above - the black painted tunnel) I did mine with the tunnel in place. After removing the seat cushion and the carpet, I marked the center for the large access hole. Then I drilled a small hole about 1/4" diameter and looked thru to see if I was centered on the solenoid location. If not you can see where you need to drill your pilot hole at the correct center. Then I used a key-hole saw (like for putting a door handle into a wooden door). Mine was still too small for the rubber plug so I used my die grinder (like a Dremmel) to get it round and to the correct size for the rubber plug. CAREFUL ! Make sure you have the large rubber plug in your hand because if you make the hole the same size as for the holes for the jack in your floor pans, and then order a new one for the solenoid hole, you will find that the repro rubber plugs are about 1/4" smaller than the original ones. It will not fall out, but you don't want it loose where rain water may get in. So wait till you get your large rubber plug before finalizing the hole diameter.

Then I lined up the 2 solenoid screws and drilled and enlarged the holes for access for the screwdriver. Get these plugs first too. Note that these holes have to be very high on the tunnel and you need to get a long small diameter screwdriver. I got a long one, but then I had to grind it to a smaller shank dimeter to fit into the 2 upper holes.
 
Geez... for the tunnel I'm thinkin' a zipper down the middle and velcro along each bottom edge.

Seriously, thanks for the tips on access and wiring holes.

Alan -- Are you saying that I will need, at a minimum, a bump-out on the righthand side to accomodate the angle-drive? Or is this just convenient but not required?


Tunnel-LH.JPG


Tunnel-RH.JPG
 
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